Mirror dimmer level - only if changed by physical switch

[embrito]

I know about the Mirror app, which works great but not for what I'm trying to achieve I guess. I'm wondering if there is a way to get it done with RM.

This is the scenario.

Family room has two lights:

1. Fan lights (controlled by an Inovelli LZW36).
2. Floor lamp (controlled by a Honeywell z-wave outlet dimmer).

The idea is that every time someone taps on the light switch (LZW36), the z-wave outlet should mirror it. Basically the switch should always control (on/off/dim) both lights.

When using voice command and pico remotes I should be able to controll the lights individually. Reason: I may trigger a scene where I do want the fan light to be on and the lamp off, another scene may have different dim levels for both. Also, in my pico remotes I will have different buttons for each one of them meaning I may turn on the fan light only.

Any ideas?

[SmartHomePrimer]

If you're using the Inovelli driver (not the built-in driver), you can turn on "Local Protection Settings" and the light button will function as a scene controller instead of a light button. I use mine this way to control smart bulbs, instead of standard non-smart bulbs. But, it's not fast. About a 2 second delay for just toggling a light on and off, but it works. Pico will be much better for controlling the light.

[embrito]

@SmartHomePrimer

you can turn on "Local Protection Settings" and the light button will function as a scene controller ... But, it's not fast. About a 2 second delay for just toggling a light on and off

That is actually a great idea. But as you mentioned I can end up with an unbearable delay.
Also, I loose the option to dim from the switch.

Looks like RM does support a "physical switch" and "physical dimmer" events but for whatever reason the LZW36 driver is not reporting it. Maybe @Eric_Inovelli or someone from his team can look into the driver and determine whether it is possible to add this functionality into a future update.

[SmartHomePrimer]

Their driver does support button presses for the dimmer up/down and you can program button controller/Rule Machine, but it has the same delay problem so dimming is press once, stare at the light for 2 seconds, press again, etc.

It needs to be faster and also needs to support released events on the dimmer buttons so it can use smooth dimming of smart bulbs.

However, looking again at what you want to accomplish, it should all be possible if you’re using regular bulbs with the LZW36. The state of the dimmer is reported, so that’s your condition for your rule that can control the outlet. Also, I believe the button presses are still registered, even when light protection settings are not used. So you can still use it as a scene controller ( ie press for toggle light, hold for light and floor lamp toggle). Therefore button controller will do the trick. And if you want to control the light with a Pico, just program button controller to control the light like any other dimmer.

[embrito]

@SmartHomePrimer

press once, stare at the light for 2 seconds, press again

Yeah... I don't understand how someone can put up with these delays.
For me, anything above a few hundred milisseconds is unaceptable.

@SmartHomePrimer

Their driver does support button presses for the dimmer up/down and you can program button controller/Rule Machine

It does and it also reports the button push event regardless of whether or not you are controlling the load. What it does not do is to report the difference between digital and a physical event and that is what I believe I need for this to work.

The goal is to "Mirror state only if fan light state was changed by someone touching the switch."

For this to work the system needs to be aware of the difference between physical and digital events and that is what the driver is not triggering: "physcal switch" and "physical dimmer" events.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@SmartHomePrimer

I use mine this way to control smart bulbs, instead of standard non-smart bulbs. But, it's not fast. About a 2 second delay for just toggling a light on and off, but it works.

Are you using Z-Wave bulbs or non-Z-Wave bulbs? There will be a slight delay if using non-Z-Wave bulbs as the hub has to interpret commands. One other thing that may help with this delay is upgrading to 1.36 firmware if you haven't already. You can disable the built in 700ms delay (for multi-taps).

Firmware v1.36 (Beta) | LZW36 | Fan + Light - Red Series

You will lose multi-tap functionality, but you should still be able to use button 1, press/release (for dimming) for smart bulbs.

@embrito

@SmartHomePrimer

press once, stare at the light for 2 seconds, press again

Yeah... I don't understand how someone can put up with these delays.
For me, anything above a few hundred milisseconds is unaceptable.

Lol, man, we get beat up on this all the time. To the point where we made ugly sweaters reminding us about it. Here's our CTO's lol:

We're trying our best, I promise, but there's only so much wireless can compete with wired. I would say in most cases, local control can accomplish pretty quick speeds.

Let me have @ericm look into this one to see what we can do from our side (looking good in that sweater Eric lol!)

Here's mine so we can both be embarrassed together:

[embrito]

@Eric_Inovelli

Are you using Z-Wave bulbs or non-Z-Wave bulbs? ... One other thing that may help with this delay is upgrading to 1.36 firmware if you haven't already. You can disable the built in 700ms delay ...

Yes, I upgraded all my switches to 1.36.
I'm using regular LED bulbs.

@Eric_Inovelli

Lol, man, we get beat up on this all the time. To the point where we made ugly sweaters reminding us about it

It is all right. You guys are doing great.
I didn't try it but looks to me the newest dimmer firmware (and driver) even have a parameter to reduce the delay in case you can't disabled it. Great stuff.

Anyway... after upgrading all my switches to the latest firmware I disabled physical delay, adjusted ramp rate and set the minimum dim level according to the light bulb on each room (some of my light bulbs only come to life after level reaches 23%).

These tweaks completely changed my experience, all my switches are very responsive now.

@Eric_Inovelli

Let me have @ericm look into this one to see what we can do from our side (looking good in that sweater Eric lol!)

Great, assuming it is doable, I think that being able to distinguish between digital and physical events can open the door for a lot of advanced scenarios.

[SmartHomePrimer]

It's a damn good device, but the delay is a real problem I hope you can sort. I'm using smart bulbs, but this isn't a "hub interpreting commands delay" issue according to others with Red series dimmers that also have the LZW36. They are saying there's little delay with the other Red series devices.

I've been on 1.36 since I first installed them several months ago. Connection to the C-7 hub is fast. 100kbps connection speed is pretty normal with these. The hub is fast. I have Zigbee controllers that support multiple presses (up to 5), and there's no significant delay.

@Eric_Inovelli

You can disable the built in 700ms delay (for multi-taps).

Cool! I wish I had known this earlier (or maybe I just wasn't paying attention ). This works for me!

I would love to see this removal of the delay extended to the dim up/down buttons. I don't really need multiple tap functionality on this (but, not saying I wouldn't like it if it could be done completely without delays ).

@Eric_Inovelli

You will lose multi-tap functionality, but you should still be able to use button 1, press/release (for dimming) for smart bulbs.

Really want release events on the dim up/down buttons, as long as they're fast. If you guys can solve this for the on/off button, I'm confident you can solve it for the up/down dim. I'm pulling for you on this one! Thanks for staying engaged, and for the tip on disabling that on/off delay that I overlooked.