Migrating a Z-Wave Network

Same here. Lucky I read your post. :sweat_smile:

What might be the ramifications of not resetting a Z-Wave device when moving it to a C7.

In Bruce's original instructions he lists one step as "Reset the device". I have some older devices that have been working fine for some year or so. However these devices (Linear WD500Z-1 dimmers) are real finicky about doing anything. They are however real plain, installed and working on my C4 hub.

Is not resetting even doable?

Z-wave devices are "bound" to their hub.

At the very least, you need to do an "exclude" for the device before you can join it to a new hub. And, you want to be careful where/how you exclude it so it doesn't wipe out a bunch of rules.

Thanks I'll give that a shot. For exclusion I have an S2 stick.

Personally I wouldn't advise it, there are certain things that get programmed on a join and if they are blocked or another one is set up wrong it can go wrong. It's expects it to be default and by not being that it can and has caused issues for me when I haven't factory reset them. It does depend on the device though, a really complicated z-wave RGBW device with child's yes, a z-wave or ZigBee contact sensor will most likely be completely fine.

1 Like

I've started to Migrate my C4 to my new C7. Before starting I carefully read bravenel's instructions in post #1. But before I started any of the steps I rewrote his steps in a form I prefer. There should be NO difference between what Bruce wrote and the steps below. I prefer short bullets rather that long descriptive sentences. Its been a long time but Ikea directions would drive me crazy, thank god for the exploded view.

The goal here is to join a device to the C7 hub, then change the matching device that was downloaded with the C4 database to have this new DNI. By doing so your automations will now use the new physical device you just paired. BTY, the C4 I mention could be a C5.
Clearly the Hub automations do not use the DNI to know which devices are to be automated.

Below, deviceA is any Z-Wave device you are moving. Could be "Front Foyer" which might be a ZEN27 dimmer etc.
BTW the C4 I mention could be a C5
I used _Remove instead of A Remove because the leading underline puts that device at the top.

Steps are as follows:

  1. Download the C4 backup to the C7
  2. C7: change all the database downloaded Z-Wave device’s DNI to "xDIN"
  3. Exclude the deviceA from the Z-Wave network. Use either S2, C7 Hub or Minimote.
  4. “Factory Reset” deviceA per mfg instructions.
  5. Join deviceA to the new hub. When it joins, give it the label "_Remove", and save the device.
  6. C7: change the now joined deviceA DNI to "aDNI" Note: this DNI without the “a” will be used in step 7
  7. C7: Open the deviceA that was downloaded from the C4 database (step 1). Change its xDNI to DNI from step 6.
  8. C7: Remove deviceA labeled "_Remove". Will have to “Force Remove” because it physically no longer exists.
  9. You’ve now transferred the radio assigned DNI for deviceA to the database imported deviceA. The database imported deviceA is assigned to the database imported Rules & Automations

I've had good luck with those I've already transferred. Probably the most time I've spent so far is collecting the exclude, reset and include directions for each device.

4 Likes

I’m getting ready to transition from my C-5 to my C-7 this weekend... I have cleared my calendar, as I suspect I will be busy with this move - I have over 400 devices, though only 58 Z-Wave and 46 Zigbee... So it may not be too bad...

I have multiple Inovelli switches that have child devices - do I understand correctly that I won’t be able to migrate them because of this?

I there a known and recommended way to delete those child devices for those Inovelli switches?

You could simply force-remove the Inovelli devices from the new hub after backup (try to remove them, then wait about 30 seconds until it asks if you want to force-remove)--this, of course, after removing them from (or subbing them out in) any app, including rules, that use the parent or child devices. Then re-join them and put them back into your apps. I suppose you could also just remove them before the backup via the "regular" method, too--and in that case you could just delete the child devices, keep the parent (and turn off any options that create child devices), and then at least be able to use the "shortcut" method above to migrate the device, then re-enable any child options once everything is settled on the new hub. You'd still have to remove or swap out any child devices that were in use by apps, so this may or may not actually save time.

But the issue here is just that it must be done manually rather than via the "shortcut" method for this device, not that its mere presence prevents anything from working with the entire backup or other devices, in case that wasn't clear. So the worst case is you'll just be stuck doing it like anyone would if they were replacing a device on the same hub. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Ah I had forgotten that.

Yeah I had a hard time removing my two Zooz double plugs with child devices once I restored the backup on the C7. I don’t remember what I had to do in the end. I know I had less trouble with one and the process didn’t work on the other.

I would recommend replacing them with virtual devices on the C5 and deleting them before you move your backup.

I have three inovelli red dimmers now but they were added after the migration.

I had one more device with a child device that was also a PIA to delete.

Edit. Now I remember it was the Zooz rgbw controller. Had to use pc controller to get rid of that one.

1 Like

This is a great reason for picking up a UZB from mouser for 19 bucks.

1 Like

Agreed! I suspect I will have to do that for a couple devices...

Thanks! I hadn't thought of doing that before the backup. I have 1 Zooz Multi-Relay that I will remove now, before doing the transition.

I don't have an external Z-Wave stick, so will see how it goes without it...

1 Like

Well... This transition to my new C-7 hub has gone as expected... When things worked, it was great. Most of my time however was spent (wasted?) trying to fix small problems, but the biggest one has stopped me in my tracks right now.

The Z-wave on my C-7 hub just wont exclude or include anymore. It says it is on, the devices are in pairing mode, but nothing happens... What a pain!!! Rebooting was no help, turning Z-Wave off and on was no help, repairing the network was no help. Grrr! This has occurred once or twice before during the process and after a while, it came back but apparently, my luck ran out.

Note that I have a C-5 hub that has no Z-Wave devices connected to it. On that one, I enabled Z-Wave, Start Exclusion, and immediately it performs the exclusion, so I know the issue is related to the C-7 or its mesh somehow. Both hubs are next to each other and the switch is maybe 4 feet away from the hub with a wall in between.

Do any of those with Z-Wave experience/expertise have any ideas if there is something to do in these cases, if I just need to wait, of if there is a bug somewhere?

I've looked for documentation on the new Z-Wave options available with the C-7, but have found nothing under docs.hubitat.com... :frowning:

I have 57 Z-Wave devices to transition, with 10 left to go...

Additional information: Under Z-Wave Details, a lot of devices show either FAILED or NOT_RESPONDING, though they do actually work...

I would suggest taking the 3 S0 devices to no security (need to re-pair). C-7 has security issues, and S0 takes 3 times the bandwidth. The upcoming 2.2.4 release will hopefully fix everything. I sure hope - my C-7 needs it. Also, I’d also make your Den Computer light no security for same reason. There’s no reason for it to be secure. I can see a reason the outside motion sensor might need to be secure,

1 Like

Thanks @672southmain!

I wonder if that might be the cause for the issues I am encountering with pairing... I enabled security because it was available, but really have no idea what this does - good or bad...

Right now however I can't unpair or pair... :frowning: Hopefully that functionality will come back!

Really looking forward to the 2.2.4 release!!! I must say that I regret having migrated now, before that release. I suspect it may have been easier at that point, though who knows!

The bigger problem, now that I look again, is the ghost node at device 06. You need to get rid of that, and any other ghost nodes. Search the forum for ghost for details how. 2.2.4 is supposed to fix that issue. Try to remove it. That might cure most issues.

2 Likes

I'll look for those! I tried removing them (There is a "Remove" button sometimes), but I was not able to yet... Thanks!!!

Do a clean shutdown to red light, remove power for 30 sec, reboot. That’s necessary to reset the Z-Wave radio to allow removal of ghosts. I feel your pain. Been there, done that.

4 Likes

Doing this right now! Interestingly enough, I am just recalling that I had done that previously and it did help - I had to move my hub over by a few feet to its final location... I hadn't realized that the full shut down was different than the reboot. Good to know!

Hehe... I'm looking forward to being on the other side of this! I really, really appreciate your support! Thanks!

Update: Full shut-down and re-start enabled the unpairing and unpairing again!!!
Yay!!! Unfortunately, the 5 ghost nodes remain after full shut down, wait and reboot... :frowning: I'll have to see if I can find anything else tomorrow... My brain is mush now after a full weekend transitioning the hub...

2 Likes

To remove the ghost nodes they cannot be seen on the network or you won't be able to remove them. See this all the time. If the hub can ping the device it won't remove it. Even if the device was later paired again successfully later. After you remove power to them and leave them disconnected, run a repair on the failed node. It may go to either failed or not responding. if it goes to not responding, run another repair. Then click remove. If it still doesn't remove then Shutdown hub to red led and pull power for a minute. Boot it back up and remove again. Repeat for each of the failed pairs.

2 Likes

Ok, but note that node 0x01 is the Hubitat hub, don’t remove it.

2 Likes