Matter/Thread and future of C-8

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Hi, this topic is intended to cover Matter/Thread news, that I found (or other forum members). Let's start.

#1: I noticed, that recenty Aqara started to push update for their hubs, to add Matter/Thread support. So, by the way, question to developers is: what is the approximate date for the implementation of Matter/Thread support, Q2? Q3? Q4?

#2: Aqara announced the release of new devices natively supporting Matter / Thread, quote:

The new sensors, i.e. the Door and Window Sensor P2 and the Motion and Light Sensor P2, are set to release in early 2023

source of info: Aqara Smart Home Industry News

and this is not all, because another source, is confirming information about that two mentioned previously sensors, and informs us about few more, quote

Aqara Video Doorbell G4
Aqara Presence Sensor FP2
Aqara Smart Lock U100
Aqara LED Strip T1
Aqara Door & Window Sensor P2
Aqara Motion & Light Sensor P2

Some of these devices were showcased at CES 2023 and are expected to hit the markets heading into Q2 of 2023.

source of info: Aqara Devices with Matter Support: Full List - SmartHomeScene

#3: What do you think about the compatibility issue, will Aqara follow the standards this time? With the advent of the Matter/Thread era, will we finally stop having problems with manufacturers doing what they want? Theoretically, Matter/Thread could usher in a new era where compatibility issues would disappear...

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They very rarely (if ever) discuss future release dates or road maps.

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I see, like Blizzard/Activision, it will be, when it will be ready :smiley:

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My guess is no.

Thread/Matter is only going to add yet another protocol to develop and maintain. I think people are delusional to think that Matter/Thread (especially in this first generation) are going to be better than Zigbee and Z-wave and that it will solve any compatibility issues. I think you are going to have more issues with Matter/Thread compatibility in its current form than the older and more mature protocols.

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I hope that you are wrong, at least about compatibility part. Because I expect "childhood problems", when Matter/Thread will be introduced.

Even not I have hope, but I'm convinced that we should not have any problems with compability in future, because in meanwhile, I found quite long article about Matter/Thread, which is explaining a lot of details, and and it answers my question. Unfortunately, in Polish language (but it could be "google translated").

TL,DR;
According to this article, in theory Matter/Thread should solve compatibility issues, and issue of separate eco-systems, and even allows Matter/Thread devices to be controlled by more than one gateway in same time. Article is accessible here:

And at the end of it, there are source materials, on which that article is based.

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For now, reality is somewhere between your optimism and complete pessimism at the development of yet another standard.

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I definitely hope that current situation is "childhood problems". I do not want to be "early adopter", I will patiently observe and wait until Matter/Thread is a mature solution.

Edition: I watched video linked above, for me current state of Matter/Thread, when assuming scale from 1 to 10, is somewhere around 7. Some functionalities are not finished (power metering), some are not intuitive or not documented well (work in more than one gateway), some are not done, but no because of system (no integration with Amazon). I see potential here, and I hope, that all issues will be resolved sooner or later.

And one more note, that standard is developed by organizations with experience (i.e. that one, which developed ZigBee ealier) and some major industry companies.

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I am not a big optimist, because I think that Matter will bring only the very basic functionalities to other platforms, bypassing device-specific settings that still will be available only if you purchase the device manufacturer's own hub / install and register device manufacturer's own cloud app. It's funny that Tuya, known to be the producer of the least compatible Zigbee devices is part of the Matter organization 'gold' partners. Tuya benefits from the hundreds of manufacturers paying taxes for using their cloud services - with Matter full compatibility, they will have to change their business model.

But we will see what is the reality, when Aqara first devices receive Matter and/or Thread updates ( Aqara P1 motion sensor should be one of them). Then hopefully FP2 - will it be usable on HomeKit (will it be configurable from HomeKit) without making an Aqara account and using the Aqara specific app?

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I think the answer is "they have to".

From what I understand, commercial Matter devices will have a digital certificate that is necessary for them to join a matter network. In order to get the digital certificate, you have to have the device certified. To be certified, it must pass a suite of test to ensure compatibility.

So, not compatible means no digital certificate means it can't join a matter network.

There's a high-level description of this here: Matter Security & Privacy - CSA-IOT explaining that the device must be verified before it gets admitted to the matter network.

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I have not been following matter developments but have a question:

What is different in matter that will result in compatibility issues that a single source of Z-Wave could not solve?

I have been using some development boards based on the TI cc2530 Zigbee chip. The software is basically a copy of the TI recommended. I've had zero compatibility issues, proving it can be done. So how will matter be different?

It seems matter's main thrust is to make all devices look the same (interface wise). How will this be effective is the market cannot make even basic devices the same.

It seems to me all/much of the incompatibility is a due to either growing pains and/or $$. The device market is not even close to saturated with devices. So no company is loosing sales due to incompatibility issues. Aqara is updating its hub and devices. It is likely (based on the past) their devices will be compatible with their hubs but not all hubs.

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On the pessimistic side - I hope the Matter certification process will be much more strict, than the the current CSA standards are.

Example - Tuya PIR Sensor - CSA-IOT . Download the compliance document archive. Open the 17-02825-003-0x0500-IAS-Zone-Cluster-Test-Specification-Editors.doc file

image
image724×387 11.4 KB

Does this Tuya sensor follow the standards for configuring the IAS zone level ( motion sensor sensitivity) - NO.
Has Tuya implemented a non-standard method for configuration (using Tuya specific 0xEF00 cluster command ) - YES
Has Tuya received CES certification for this device (after paying all the certification fees :slight_smile: ) - Yes!

Same with Matter ...

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I agree 100%. I'd rather fewer features that are rigorously checked and consistently implemented than a huge feature set that no two parties implement in the same way. I'm hoping that CSA has learned from its past mistakes!

Here's also where the thread / matter open-source approach may be much better than the closed source. With each device maker (presumably) starting from the same open-source code, it gives an opportunity for more consistent implementation (and many more parties looking at / checking the code). I think this open source code model is an important feature for the future of the smart house-- as anybody who uses Z-wave can attest, the current closed-source model is broken (we've been waiting years for a fix so we never have to again deal with "ghost" nodes or even hear that phrase) - and there is no sign of that fix!. Placing our hopes in one vendor hasn't worked.

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I really dont care about Matter and Thread until I saw that Aqara is introducing it to their camera. Now that could be interesting. Up to this point on basically every ecosystem, cameras are severely lacking for the smart home. They can be doing so much more in a unified manner. Pipe dream im sure, but something to hope for.

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At least for Hubitat, have you looked at Camect? You can pretty much use any ip camera.

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Out of curiosity I looked for any type of matter capable devices. I only found WiFi devices.
Do folks think this is a trend? I can see mfg seeing limitations with Zigbee and Z-Wave. Everyone in HA likely (must?) have WiFi.

If this is the case could be we be loosing some "Z" capable device offerings?

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Yale is not introducing new Zigbee modules for their Assure 2 locks. They are going Thread/Matter. (I believe I've seen reports that older Zigbee modules do work with the new locks, though.)

CSA is also introducing 'Zigbee PRO 2023' spec, mostly security focused.

My guess is that newer devices, especially higher-value/capability devices, will tend to move to Thread/Matter over time. Hard to know if simpler, lower cost items like sensors will make the same move.

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My question is: will those going to matter use WiFi because its more universal?

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The primary argument for Thread vs Wi-Fi is power consumption. Battery powered sensors want to be Thread (or Zigbee!). Mains powered Matter devices more likely to be Wi-Fi. Component costs likely to be much lower for Wi-Fi than Thread just due to sheer volume. It really remains to be seen if this really comes to pass or not. So much talk, so little to show for it, so far.

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You mean you think that huge companies would put their own interests above common cooperation to achieve general public satisfaction??? I don't believe it!!!!

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