Matter bridge, pretty please?

🚧 Developers
1

I've been using HubiThings Replica for a good while & have also been a huge fan of Matter.

Adding Matter bridge support for Hubitat would eliminate the need for things like Hubithings, and would make the platform incredibly powerful (it has such amazing device compatibility, and all those devices would become Matter devices)

Is this planned (please say yes)?

I'm a software engineer at Google on the Android Matter team (I joined because I'm a fan of Matter, not the other way around), so if I can be of any help.... let me know.

8 Likes
2

I can't answer your request; but might I ask a question since your a Matter fan?

Can you explain in simple what Matter is? I've read a number of articles and most of what they say doesn't matter (pun intended).

From what I glean Matter is:

  • An interface specification like Z-Wave (conceptually not actually) that will work with any radio protocol.

  • It probably has a higher level of error checking and communication that current protocols. But still a software specification.

  • It likely has some binding code to connect it to different radios (i.e. WiFi, Zigbee, Bluetooth, Z-Wave,...... etc). Perhaps a hardware abstraction layer of some sort.

Am I even close?

Thanks
John

2 Likes
3

Not quite any radio protocol. Matter is an IPv6 based protocol that works over Ethernet, WiFi, and Thread. It does not natively support Z-wave or Zigbee. It is designed to replace both of them. Some vendors, like Hue and Aqara, are adding Matter Bridge support to their hubs to allow their Zigbee networks to work with Matter.

IIRC, Bluetooth is only used by Matter as part of the device discovery and onboarding process.

Yes, it is designed by a large consortium of major players (Apple, Google, Amazon, plus many others.) As such, they have incorporated improved security and encryption.

Matter has the concept of Controllers, which can share devices with other Controllers, thereby allowing all Devices to be used across multiple Matter platforms (e.g. Apple Home, Google Home, Amazon Alexa, Home Assistant, etc…) simultaneously. There are no device specific drivers required, as interoperability is part of the specification. This means no more vendor specific integrations for all of the major voice assistants.

To support Matter over Thread. one needs at least one Thread Border router. Multiple Thread Border routers may be implemented on a single Thread Mesh network. This has the promise of improved reliability and robustness. Thread is a much better network for low power battery powered devices compared to WiFi. Eventually, there is supposed to be a bunch of contact, motion, leak, and other sensors all based on Thread. Some Apple HomePods, some Amazon Echos, and some Google Home devices already have Thread radios onboard.

Time will tell if Matter is a success…or just one more standard.

Here is a more detailed explanation about Matter

11 Likes
4

Thank you, much clearer.

One last question:

In summary can I say Matter is basically:

  1. A device capabilities specification like Z-Wave has.

  2. An IP based communications protocol.

    • Includes error correction
    • Capability to send and receive from hub and other Matter devices, including like Apple Home etc
    • Some command negotiating capability so one device can ask another device what it is capable of and tell it to do something.
    • and likely some other abilities

Thanks
John

5

Ogiewon did a great job at explaining :+1:

I think the original pre-release name for matter does a better job at explaining what it is :sweat_smile:

CHIP - Connected Home Over IP

The idea is that devices/bridges are able to communicate with each other over your existing network (IP, i.e. your standard ethernet/WiFi router) instead of needing a special hub with special radios

As ogiewon explained, there are some immediate benefits to this: you can have something like hubitat act as a bridge, such that all its devices are seen as Matter devices on your LAN.

Then, as a matter bridge, you can add those devices (& auto-sync, cuz you're adding the bridge, not devices) to SmartThings, Google Home, etc. - which will all have access to your devices through your LAN (with no need to go through cloud to control/access them)

3 Likes
6

Thank you, every bit of info helps. The trouble I have with many of the explanations on the net is they talk about how good it is and interoperability etc. But never actually explain the basic architecture etc.

One claim is that all devices will work with all hubs (Matter certified of course). But for the hardware abstraction layer the device must still follow the Matter defn for that device. This doesn't seem much different than the current set of Z-Wave products which are "supposed" to have a common interface but most fall short.

The idea is that devices/bridges are able to communicate with each other over your existing network (IP, i.e. your standard ethernet/WiFi router) instead of needing a special hub with special radios.

Personally I prefer the current radio solution because it doesn't rely on my router. But that is just me.

1 Like
7

Yes that is the way I see it as well, as far as the similarity to Zwave goes. For Zwave I have found the devices to conform to the specs very well actually. I can usually write drivers for devices blind with only some basic info. I think this is in part due to excellent docs put out for the Zwave specs. Zigbee on the other hand... I started trying to make sense out of it for a simple power metering plug I wanted to do a driver for but gave up.

3 Likes
8

Staff have said here in the forum that they’re committed in principle to supporting Matter, but have not laid out any specific timelines or shared details about what that support might look like.

In general, they keep their roadmaps held pretty close to the chest, so it’s unusual for us as users to get too much of a heads up re: upcoming features.

9

Re: ZWave/zigbee attributes/properties/etc. - yeah for sure, Matter would suffer from the same thing

But that's not its main benefit - the main benefit is LAN communication e.g. between hubs/controllers

So for example, right now, if you want SmartThings integration, you need something like HubiThings Replica

If you want to integrate with Google Home, then you need that integration + a cloud hop

If you want Alexa integration, etc. etc.

But with Matter, Hubitat becomes a matter bridge - it doesn't need to have support for Google Home, or Alexa, or SmartThings - just being a matter bridge makes it compatible, & you can then add it to Alexa/Apple Home/whatever & all the devices hooked up to your hubitat just work (through your LAN with no need for cloud communication)

Future matter devices not needing a special bridge / hub / manufacturer app/login is just an added bonus

1 Like
10

Good to know - I hope the silence means it's coming :sweat_smile:

At a minimum I'd hope they use the question to gauge how much it's wanted (& to reach out to me privately if they need anything)

11

I'm not convinced Matter will change this: has Samsung committed to making SmartThings a Matter bridge and not just a Matter controller? Last I saw, they hadn't, and I don't think it's what most hub manufacturers have in mind when they say something like "Matter support." (Exceptions are things like Philips Hue, where that's exactly what they've committed to: being Zigbee, Hue devices need a Matter bridge to expose them to Matter "networks." That kind of thing is all I've seen.)

So, sure, you could add Matter devices to ST (or Alexa or whatever) -- but I haven't seen any word about exposing arbitrary devices out.

6 Likes
12

So far, I can't find any of the major players that have committed to making their devices a matter BRIDGE. Most of the big players that have said anything (Samsung) have explicitly stated they will NOT make their devices Matter Bridges.

It is a HUGE flaw in the promise of Matter and will likely cause the whole thing to fall apart. Matter Bridges are the key to making all of Matter's interoperability promises a reality. If nobody supports them, then Matter becomes just another walled-garden protocol that offers little to nothing over the current smart home landscape. If anything, it's arguably worse because Matter has several different communication methods (Wi-Fi, Thread) that may or may not be supported by all devices. So, a matter logo on a device will NOT mean it is automatically compatible with your platform. It's kind of a mess.

This is a huge opportunity for someone like Hubitat, who isn't really interested in building a walled-garden to build a mutil-protocol bridge that can serve as a mediary to other platforms people are interested in using for voice control, dashboards, etc. Hopefully, Hubitat will see that and figure out a way to make it happen.

13

I think you might have missed how Matter multi-admin works. The devices can communicate to multiple competing hubs simultaneously on the same lan.

6 Likes
14

I understand that, and maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post. For native matter devices that is fine. But, there is no world where EVERY device will become a native matter device. It leaves a big hole in the ecosystem where we still need to use separate apps or methods of getting those non-matter devices into those other controllers.

Is everyone expected to throw away all of their Zigbee or Zwave devices and adopt Matter wholesale? If that is the only option, people will just choose to stick with what works (and keep buying the same type of devices.)

If there are Matter Bridges that provide backwards compatibility with those older devices and gives all the benefits of controlling those devices on different controllers, it makes Matter as a whole a more worthwhile proposition.

Today, I see ZERO value in matter because of the lack of bridging non-Matter devices into a multi-controller environment.

1 Like
15

The Matter protocol is still at a rather early stage of deployment and acceptance of the major home automation gadgets players. Currently, at least the following manufacturers provide hubs with a Matter Bridge function :

  • Philips Hue
  • Aqara - M2 and E1 hubs (M3 coming soon)
  • SwitchBot Hub2
  • Zemismart M1 (Tuya)

Note, that not all devices supported by these hubs are accessible via Matter Bridge.

Hopefully, there will be more in 2024.

3 Likes
16

If someone's Zigbee or Zwave device is working fine in their automation controller, why would they throw it away in order to get a Matter device? That does not make any sense. Not every device needs to be in every controller. And if you do want there, there are already tools in place within Hubitat to do so.

Matter just provides more options for someone as they design their homes/environment. If you have a strong Zigbee or Zwave environment, there is no need to change anything. If you have a problematic area of your home, maybe a Matter device would work better. This is what happened in my own home with a problematic basement. I wanted to try to avoid buying another Hubitat and using Hub Mesh. It turns out that a Matter via WiFi device solved my issues since I had an access point down there. I also had a couple of Thread Boarder Routers, so a Matter via Thread would have worked as well. Again, it's just additional tools to use depending on one's needs and desires.

7 Likes
17

I have installed a few Kasa Matter switches in the past week or so and have ordered more. They run locally and work very quickly (like zigbee quick). I have a house full of zwave inovelli that are not that quick and need some babysitting occasionally. I have a strong mesh but in my outbuildings they are a bit slower and not as reliable as wifi.

I have spent time and money to make sure my wifi coverage is robust and covers all of my yard and outbuildings so Matter over wifi is an awesome way to take advantage of that and have everything local. No third party apps or integrations to worry about or fuss with, no usernames or passwords, no cloud connection. Its a win in my books so far. I will still keep zwave in the bulk of the house where things are closer to the hub but even those devices arent as fast as I would like at times. And I still like zigbee for battery devices and philips hue, again as stated MORE options!

PLUS I bought like 4 switches for the price of one zwave switch

6 Likes
18

I don't know if I understand this completely, but can Hubitat be made a Matter Bridge through software so that my Z-wave devices can be controlled with a Matter controller? If so, are they working on this?

19

Not with anything built, no.

I am not aware of any current plans, though anything is possible for the future. Hubitat as of now is a Matter controller (as are most similar systems with Matter support).

20

Looks like home assistant just added this capability:

C'mon hubitat don't make me switch! :sweat_smile:

Would much rather stick with hubitat