Lutron RA2 And Rules with a Keypad

[aarons_hub]

Something isn't clicking for me and I'd like a bit of help kickstarting my Hubitat and Lutron RA2 integration experience.

I've set up the Lutron Integrator successfully and it can login via the defaults.

What I'd like to do is when a keypad button is pressed (that currently is set to a Toggle button--but I can reprogram it as necessary):

1. If a Z-Wave plug-in outlet that it's controlling is off, turn it on (as well as the LED to on)
2. if a z-wave plug-in outlet that it's controlling is on, turn it off (as well as the LED to off)
3. If the Z-Wave plug-in outlet is toggled at the source (on/off), have the LED on the keypad toggle

The keypad is a W3BSRL, and I want to have the second button be the one that controls the plug-in outlet.

The plug-in outlet is just a generic model that has a physical button on the side and an LED light indicating on/off.

I've had weird combos of things sort of working, but never everything seamlessly or consistently (or correctly likely). I didn't know if this should be a button, or a rule, or some combination of things.

I do have access to the RA2 configuration software (Inclusive version) and can reprogram the keypads if needed.

Thanks! I really appreciate your help as my tinkering hasn't worked.

[bravenel]

The W3BSRL should be a Lutron Keypad device in Hubitat. Then you can use a Basic Rule for the outlet toggle portion. Select the Keypad, button 2, and Toggle Switch as the setup for the Basic Rule.

The keypad LED is a different kettle of fish! For this you're going to need to create an automation in Rule Machine just to manage the LED. The trigger for this rule will be the outlet device. The actions will use Custom Action to control LED number 2, with the commands ledOn and ledOff. This could be two rules to keep it very simple, or one with a Conditional Action based on what happens:

That shows how to select the two commands you need.

Here is the final rule:

This overcomes the fact the Lutron has no idea what's going on with your Z-Wave outlet.

[bill.d]

And also note, if there is any programming of the buttons in the Lutron software (the buttons are not blank) the Lutron software will override any Hubitat LED commands.

[aarons_hub]

The button I'm using is just set as toggle, but controls no loads anywhere.

[aarons_hub]

Update: It's nearly working.

Clarification: Button 2 on the 3 button keypad shows as Button 3 in the logs, so I substituted 3 for 2 from your examples.

When I press the button on the plug-in wall outlet, the LED light toggles successfully on the keypad! Way cool! I'd only managed before to get it to permanently stay in one state (not very useful).

If the plug-in switch is off, and I press the Keypad button, the plug-in toggles to on correctly. A few seconds later, the LED toggles to off, and the keypad button no longer functions -- it won't toggle the plug-in back to off.

I don't have any other rules that would interfere (in fact, I only have a 2 other rules at all as I'm starting to convert away from using a "Smart" Things hub).

Below is the log of the chain of events with me toggling the plug-in to off, then on, then then off, then the keypad button, and again the keypad button. (OK, I guess I'm not permitted to embed media yet, so I'm pasting the log as text)

dev:232021-05-05 08:00:28.094 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:242021-05-05 08:00:28.073 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
dev:232021-05-05 08:00:27.685 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:242021-05-05 08:00:27.657 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:232021-05-05 08:00:17.033 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:242021-05-05 08:00:17.013 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
dev:232021-05-05 08:00:16.634 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:242021-05-05 08:00:16.610 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:232021-05-05 08:00:09.150 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad led 3 was turned off
dev:242021-05-05 08:00:09.129 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,83,9,0
dev:272021-05-05 08:00:08.826 pm infoMinoston-1 was turned off
dev:232021-05-05 07:59:58.952 pm infoAaron's Office, Button Keypad led 3 was turned on
dev:242021-05-05 07:59:58.930 pm inforcvd: DEVICE,12,83,9,1
dev:272021-05-05 07:59:58.431 pm infoMinoston-1 was turned on
dev:272021-05-05 07:59:40.823 pm infoMinoston-1 was turned off
--- Live Log Started, waiting for events ---

[bravenel]

You need to turn on logging in the rules.

What you're showing above does show the keypad sending press and release events, as it should. So the first question is why is that not toggling the outlet. With logging on for the Basic Rule, you should be able to see its view of what is going on. Like is it seeing the button press (DEVICE,12,3,3 in your logs). It will ignore the release events (DEVICE,12,3,4). In the Basic Rule logs, it will show something like evt: keypad-name button 3 pushed

[aarons_hub]

Below is the log with additional debugging. This was just pushing the keypad button.

It seems like the toggle isn't taking.

dev:23 2021-05-06 09:02:10.012 am info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:24 2021-05-06 09:02:09.973 am info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:09.837 am debug supervision report for session: 29
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:09.834 am debug parse:zw device: 09, command: 6C02, payload: 1D FF 00 , isMulticast: false
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:09.666 am info app: finished
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:09.642 am debug new supervised packet for session: 29
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:09.639 am debug on()
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:09.629 am info act: Toggle Minoston-1
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:09.624 am info evt: Aaron's Office, Button Keypad pushed 3
dev:23 2021-05-06 09:02:09.570 am info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:24 2021-05-06 09:02:09.546 am info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:23 2021-05-06 09:02:06.248 am info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:24 2021-05-06 09:02:06.228 am info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:06.128 am debug supervision report for session: 28
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:06.124 am debug parse:zw device: 09, command: 6C02, payload: 1C FF 00 , isMulticast: false
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:05.926 am info app: finished
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:05.903 am debug new supervised packet for session: 28
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:05.900 am debug on()
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:05.889 am info act: Toggle Minoston-1
app:45 2021-05-06 09:02:05.885 am info evt: Aaron's Office, Button Keypad pushed 3
dev:23 2021-05-06 09:02:05.841 am info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:24 2021-05-06 09:02:05.813 am info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:00.343 am info Minoston-1 was turned off
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:00.339 am debug Supervision Get - SessionID: 20, CC: 37, Command: 3
dev:27 2021-05-06 09:02:00.333 am debug parse:zw device: 09, command: 6C01, payload: 14 03 25 03 00 , isMulticast: false

[bravenel]

Try a screenshot next time, uploaded with the image icon. You can see that the Basic Rule issued the Toggle command for the Minoston-1 device. We can also see that you keep pushing the button every few seconds. Slow down, so we can get to the bottom of what is going on. Also, for the Z-Wave device, turn off Debug Logging, so it only has Description Logging.

Is the power outlet toggling on and off? Does it toggle on and off from its device page?

[aarons_hub]

I'm not allowed to post screen shots apparently yet. I'm too new to the discussion board I presume.

Here's a log with with two presses of the keypad (and initially me switching the plug off via its switch). The Z-Wave device started turned-off.

dev:23 2021-05-06 01:51:39.029 pm info  Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:24 2021-05-06 01:51:39.004 pm info  rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:38.684 pm info  app: finished
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:38.643 pm info  act: Toggle Minoston-1
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:38.639 pm info evt: Aaron's Office, Button Keypad pushed 3
dev:23 2021-05-06 01:51:38.593 pm info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:24 2021-05-06 01:51:38.563 pm info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:23 2021-05-06 01:51:26.824 pm info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was released
dev:24 2021-05-06 01:51:26.800 pm info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,4
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:26.692 pm info app: finished
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:26.630 pm info act: Toggle Minoston-1
app:45 2021-05-06 01:51:26.620 pm info evt: Aaron's Office, Button Keypad pushed 3
dev:23 2021-05-06 01:51:26.497 pm info Aaron's Office, Button Keypad button 3 was pushed
dev:24 2021-05-06 01:51:26.393 pm info rcvd: DEVICE,12,3,3
dev:27 2021-05-06 01:51:19.614 pm info Minoston-1 was turned off
--- Live Log Started, waiting for events ---

The power outlet toggles on only the first time. The second push does not toggle it. The LED light turns off.

I can turn on/off the z-wave device from the device page. But, I do notice that the "current states" shows that switch: off even when it's on. If I press the Refresh button, the state is updated correctly. It's not staying current.

Current States

• switch : off

State Variables

• polled : 0
• isDigital : true
• flashing : false
• bin : -1

The plugin device I'm trying to use is the Minoston MP21Z.

[bravenel]

OK, well the state not updating explains why this doesn't work. Toggle requires an accurate device state to work: If on, turn it off; if off, turn it on. So if you turn it on and it still says off, no goodski.

I am not familiar with this device. Can you do a Z-Wave Repair (Settings / Z-Wave Details). Maybe that will make it work right.

I fixed your community settings so that you should be able to post images.

[aarons_hub]

Inspired by your question and unfamiliarity with the device I'm using, I checked the back of the device and it had two model numbers (oddly). The other model number aligns with the EVA LOGIK Smart Plug, which is in the built-in list of device types. It looks identical to what I purchased.

Customized ZW36S Z-Wave Plus Mini On/Off Light And Appliance Smart Plug Manufacturers, Suppliers, Factory - Made in China - NIE-TECH (evalogik.com)

After making that change to the EVA LOGIK Smart Plug, the state of the plug seems to align nicely with the state shown. When I press "off", the current state switches to off.

And more importantly -- the RA2 keypad seems to work pretty consistently too!

Thank you very much for your help and education. I just couldn't work out the interplay of these devices and RA2 in HE. I've wanted something to make RA2 "better" and less restrictive (and work with my other non-RA2 smart home devices), so this should be very interesting now that I understand more about what's possible.

[bravenel]

@aarons_hub

I've wanted something to make RA2 "better" and less restrictive (and work with my other non-RA2 smart home devices), so this should be very interesting now that I understand more about what's possible.

RA2 needs to be 'Elevated by Hubitat'. Lutron says proudly, "there are no IFs in Lutron", meaning, no conditional logic in their worldview. That's so 1950's thinking. They make solid products, but capable of so much more.

[aarons_hub]

@bravenel

RA2 needs to be 'Elevated by Hubitat'. Lutron says proudly, "there are no IFs in Lutron", meaning, no conditional logic in their worldview. That's so 1950's thinking. They make solid products, but capable of so much more.

Oh my this 1000x.

It's nice that RA2 is extraordinarily reliable. But, the closed network of dealers and the pointlessly limited programming capabilities in 2021 are downright anti-competitive. The whole thing is so stuck in time, especially for the price an installed and programmed system commands.

My wife and I really like the RA2 keypads especially and I still don't understand why the Z-wave/Zigbee manufacturers haven't caught on and built something as simple and robust.

[bravenel]

@aarons_hub

I still don't understand why the Z-wave/Zigbee manufacturers haven't caught on and built something as simple and robust.

They don't have the R&D budget that Lutron commands, nor the engineering skill, depth and experience. Lutron is a world class company that goes to great lengths to make products that always work, and are of the highest quality. They don't have any meaningful competitors for what they do. Z-Wave/Zigbee products are for the most part cheap consumer grade products meant to sell in high volumes, not engineered to the same levels.

You pretty much get what you pay for in this space. Most consumers choke on a $150 dimmer or $250 keypad, when they see a Z-Wave dimmer for 'only' $45.

[aarons_hub]

@bravenel

ou pretty much get what you pay for in this space. Most consumers choke on a $150 dimmer or $250 keypad, when they see a Z-Wave dimmer for 'only' $45.

I choke at that too. I've just accepted it as a necessary evil.

I am watching this one from Inovelli:

Red Series Smart 5-Button Switch - Inovelli

[bill.d]

@bravenel

They don't have any meaningful competitors for what they do.

I more or less agree. Control4 is kind of close, but I don't like the look much. C4 does have some advantages - the keys are field changeable and the MSRP is about 60% of the Lutron keypads.

[aarons_hub]

Control4 is dealer only for everything unfortunately AFAIK. I couldn't find any place late last year that would sell it directly that seemed legit at all (I did not do an exhaustive search as I was just searching for options for a possible new home we were going to build).

I do like the fact that Control4 can do larger buttons for keypads when there's space. I've got a few RA2 keypads with only a few buttons and would happily accept a larger tap target when I try to mash a scene.

[bill.d]

Agree. I just moved into a house with an existing C4 system. My dealer has been pretty good about doing small changes for no additional charge. The system is primarily AV, which it does very well. I'm changing out the few C4 dimmers to RadioRA 2 for the user controllability aspect.