Kwikset Locks and external power

I think you meant rechargeable lithium. All NiMH are rechargeable. It's best to stick to high capacity "pre-charged" NiMH (and recharge them out of the box anyway) as they have a much lower self discharge rate than "standard" NiMH.

Four (4) alkaline cells would only be 6.0v, and only the instant they are fresh out of the package. They very quickly drop off in voltage and will be under 5 volts the majority of their service life. So a 5.0v power supply should work just fine, it'll just report a battery level of 70-80% or so.

-Jeremy

1 Like

Btw: I kind of forgot to address your main point which was the unreliability of the locks reporting at battery levels under 70%. I think that may be a red herring. I have six (6) the Kwikset 914 Zwave locks and I have been having major problems with all of them reporting reliably regardless of the battery level. Most of mine still show 100% and still have issues, and some are down to 20% and aren't any less reliable than the ones at 100%. What I've found is the act of simply removing and replacing the battery pack (Without actually changing the batteries) fixes the reporting issues temporarily every time. So I think you might be having the same problem and you thought it was solved by fresh batteries when it's really solved by just taking away the batteries for a small time and re-inserting them. At least that's been my experience with the 914 Zwave models.

-Jeremy

Yes I have done this too. I believe it is the antennas personally. But could be wrong.

My 914 do experience drop outs with the batteries lower. I use the LADDA from IKEA and they work good for about a month but then I start having issues when the battery reports around 60% . If I put them in something else they run fun until fully depleated, but all my kwikset locks like the batteries charged.

I do have 3 kids so my doors are constantly locking and unlocking.

When talking about Kwikset locks you have to be careful/specific on which zwave module you have/are using - as there are two different ones.

There is a zwave and a zwave plus one.

I have the regular zwave one, and it has been working VERY well. The zwave plus one, however, seems a lot more problematic...

These are the Kwikset 888 which was made specifically for Vivint. They are the ZWave Plus model which just eats up batteries. Alkaline on either door needs batteries replaced every 3-4 weeks. Hoping NiHM batteries get me more time overall. Hoping 2-3 months.

Wow, that's awful. My regular zwave Kwikset are going 9+ months between battery changes.

Well I need to put this in context:

  • Front Door auto locks on average 10-12x/day

  • Front Door auto unlocks on average 5-6x/day

  • Front Door begins to be unreliable when batteries hit 60%. Batteries are still good to use but the lock goes flaky. So about 4-5 weeks of usage for the front door.

  • Garage door auto locks on average 18-20x/day

  • Garage door auto unlocks on average 8-9x/day

  • Garage door also is unreliable when batteries hit 60%. Battery replacement is 2-3 weeks.

So unless someone else is having similar usage patterns I have no idea if this is awful or that I just need to use more powerful and reliable batteries over alkaline.

Thats feels like mine. I wish we had a better way to report battery. Like voltage per cell or something, because then I could have better visibility to when a replacement is required.

That's definitely more cycles per day than my locks get. But I will say mine have been reliable down to 20-30% on the battery level indication.

Based on this description of your use case I'd almost be willing to put money on the NiMH batteries working better for you. Plus they are rechargeable so you won't be buying so many replacement batteries anymore. One thing though: How are your locks and unlock counts different? Unless I'm missing something: How can a lock be locked more often than it's unlocked? Or are some of the unlocks done manually rather than electrically?

NiMH tends to perform better over Alkaline for heavy loads because it has 1/5 the internal resistance (impedance). Alkaline is around 150 milliohms per cell vs 30 for NiMH. The internal resistance increases as the cell discharges which is probably why you're having so many issues at 60% charge (The impedence increases as the cell discharges, doubling at 50%) and it also increases as cells are connected in series. Since these locks use 4 batteries in series that's 600 milliohms and that doubles to 1,200 milliohms at 50% charge.

I haven't tested the load these locks place on the batteries when they lock/unlock: But it's probably a decent amount of current especially if the deadbolt encounters any physical resistance at all as it slides in/out. (Have you checked that the mechanism slides very easily? Even the slightest resistance will make a huge difference on battery life.)

Just because I'm curious I did some quick math to estimate the current these locks might pull. Kwikset claims 1 year of battery life at 10 cycles per day. (I'm assuming that's 5 locks, 5 unlocks for 10 total engagements of the motor). Alkaline batteries offer about 2000 mAh of capacity. So that means one set of batteries should be able to engage the motor 3,650 times. 2,000 mAh / 3,650 engagements = 0.55 mAh per engagement.

Now that we know each engagement of the motor eats about 0.55 mAh of energy, to calculate the "instantaneous current" we need to know how long the motor runs. If we assume it operates for about one second we would multiply 0.55 by 3600 because the 0.55 is expressed in "milliamp hours" and there are 3600 seconds in an hour.

So 0.55 times 3600 gives 1,980 milliamps or just shy of 2 amps. That sounds a bit high for such a small motor but it also needs to be fairly high torque to do it's job properly so it's not a completely unreasonable ballpark estimate. (I still plan to hook my meter up to one of the locks to measure the actual current draw to be sure)

So we know:

  1. An alkaline battery at 60% should be around 1.2 volts, times four cells in series gives starting voltage of 4.8v.
  2. That same Alkaline battery at 60% would have close to 300 milliohms of impedance, times 4 gives 1,200 miliohms (1.2 Ohms)
  3. Voltage drop is given by: V = IR : So V = 2.0 amps times 1.2 Ohms = 2.4 volts!!!

That means that after the Alkalines drop to around 60% that anytime the motor is engaged the battery voltage is being pulled down quite significantly. Probably enough to cause the radio to have trouble transmitting.

If we re-run the same math for NiMH:

  1. A NiMH battery at 60% should be around 1.2 volts, times 4 gives starting voltage of 4.8v.
  2. That same NiMH battery at 60% would have close to 60 milliohms of impedance, times 4 gives 240 miliohms (0.24 Ohms)
  3. Voltage drop is given by: V = IR : So V = 2.0 amps times 0.24 Ohms = 0.48 volts.

So, at 60% state of charge, the Alkalines would drop from 4.8v down to 2.4v when the motor is engaged, and the NiMH would drop from 4.8v down to 4.32v. The Alkaline voltage drops by half which is certainly enough to make the lock behave unreliably.

Obviously this is based on a lot of assumptions. I could be way off on the motor power requirements. But regardless you can quickly see how the NiMH would hold up better under high current loads if those motors really are pulling that kind of power and being used very frequently. Even at only 1 amp of current you would see similar differences between the chemistries performance.

-Jeremy

Now that is some analytics!

Yes doors can auto lock because you need to manually unlock to get out. Appreciate the deep thought and analysis on my problem. :grin:

Not exactly the same you guys want to do here but I got some inspiration from this thread and recently MacGyvered a solution to cable an August Keypad that kept dying with drained batteries due to the cold Canadian weather... May give you some useful ideas:

This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.