While the innovation is the space is great to see...I hate seeing this stuff packaged in a silo'ed solution with a phone app when really what the next generation of home/facility systems need is integration, across standardized platforms.
The problem is the general public goes for these whizz bang app oriented solutions without realizing how the energy related problem to be addressed is multifaceted/multiheaded.
Truth is, if they really have come up with something advanced in the way of usage and anomoly analysis it would be nice to have the ability to apply that to other facets of the overall facility.
Vendors like to lock you into their cloud solution and app. If there is ever a need to further monetize (hopefully via new additional features) it is much easier for them to do so. They would have to believe that the increased sales or monetization options on another platform is attractive enough to outweigh the clear benefit of locking users in to their own.
The average customer doesn't care. As long as it connects to alexa or google assistant in some way/shape/form they are fine.
I would suggest that many consumers are getting smarter about buying 57 varieties of things that don't integrate well....and being led along some promissory path by vendors saying "oh, we'll get to that next". There's a lot of stuff on people's closet shelves as a result.
I think Kickstarter prompts that "ooo, I can get a deal and even if it kinda works it's good" mentality. The real test is when the stuff is out there at full retail.
All I know is people keep making proprietary stuff, and other people keep buying it in bulk... How many people come on here asking how they get all this super cheap wifi crap they bought to work with Hubitat? Many every week...
I think it will get much worse before it gets better. Apple, Google and Amazon are incentivized in getting people to make cheap proprietary crap, as then they will almost have to connect it to Alexa or Google Assistant or Homekit to provide some external 'integration'.
I don't think most people realize how they are getting negatively impacted by the market forces Apple, Google, and Amazon are exerting. It's fairly insidious as it is happening without them having to be very active in making it happen.
From the title of this thread, I almost thought it was going to be about what my utility company just did: shut down their "smart" electricity consumption monitoring program. It was actually kind of neat: they offered customers the ability to get a free kit including a smart thermostat, a "hat" for our power meter (to send usage data to their bridge), and a bridge/hub we could use to access these things from a smart phone to see things like real-time usage and control the thermostat.
They weren't forthcoming about this information, but the thermostat was actually a Z-Wave thermostat (Powerley, an OEM who apparently does this for lots of utility companies and lets them market it as their own) and I'm pretty sure the "hat" for my meter is actually Zigbee, though I've never tried to pair it to Hubitat (and don't know what Zigbee profile it uses). The hub/bridge is a little Z-Wave and Zigbee hub with Wi-Fi support, so all of this was basically its own, closed smart home ecosystem. I actually used the thermostat on Hubitat because they didn't say I had to use it with their Bridge, and I happen to think it works better here. (They should too--I can actually automate it that way, not just show off by controlling from my phone or by voice.) I used the "hat" for the meter because it was neat to see real-time usage, though whether that actually worked seemed flaky to me--lots of gaps in the data.
Anyway, when they announced the discontinuation, they said you could keep the equipment. So, I plan to keep using the thermostat if I don't replace it with something better, and maybe I'll figure out if that "hat" uses a standard Zigbee profile and can communicate with Hubitat. At least here, some (maybe all? I'll find out...) was secretly standard, so you can keep using it, albeit in new ways, despite them shutting down the program (and they did indeed have their own mobile app to go along with this). But something like the above? I'd probably pass...I don't need everything in Hubitat (including whole-home energy usage, for example), but I don't want it cloud-dependent in a closed ecoystem, either. Looks like it needs a subscription, too.
yeah, remembering quite a few Utility Co systems introduced to allow usage throttling during Peak Demand...most often for AC units. Don't know if many lasted...but it doesn't seem so. One step forward one step back... and where do we find ourselves today? Massive rolling (or not so rolling) blackouts due to generation (failures) not being able to meet demand.
But DON'T let this this totally different topic derail us here. LOL
I had the opportunity to beta test the Sense Energy monitor...Cool Concept - Not so great in practice.
It provides some data and some of that data is accurate...However, what to do with that data is the hard part...Its like all of these new fangled data points I can get about my golf swing...Lots of data but I still slice the ball off of the tee on "occasion"
This reminds me of the Neurio sitting in my main breaker box. Which was also a Kickstarter project. Basically it has been completely abandoned after Generac bought them.
Was just listening to an interview that was about technology in our lives, not necessarily home automation, but they used that as an example. The interviewer said, “It’s great, when it works”. And that’s the general perception of home automation due to all of these unreliable cloud integrations
That kickstarter stuff in my opinion is awful. It seems to either be Beta level products (at best) or it never delivers, or something. I have just avoided that whole mess, I cannot believe people put their money into this stuff...
I've said this before - death by a thousand cuts little monthly payments.. or worse free as long as we can mine and sell your data (consequences to be determined). Also cloud services are great until they disappear / change scope or decide to ramp up the charges. You ARE the product after all...
It's one of the main reasons I am all in with HE at this point.
I've had okay experiences with Kickstarter as long as you set your expectations and don't go crazy - I got into home automation thanks to the SmartThings offering. I've also supported a few other things I was interested in and have been mostly happy. Usually you can tell the snake oil stuff but not always.
The first and last kickstarter I participated was SmartThings. Paid them money and waited, and waited, and waited....... Finally it shipped and was disappointed to find that it was cloud only. Never the less kept it and found the app was only available for iPhone. Waited, and waited.... App came out and was finally able to use the dang thing. Then it was a few years of it being broken more than it was running. Kept putting up with crash after crash until most of the kinks were worked out. Then came the new hub. More crashing, more frustration. After a couple more years things finally started to get going. webCoRE was born and wow! That was a welcome site..... Then the announcement of SmartThings plan to eliminate Grovey. That was my kick in the rear to come to Hubitat.
I doubt I will ever do another kickstarter because most of them promise how great things will be. They take your money and you are lucky if you get anything out of it at all, expect boat loads of frustration.
Oh, I back all sorts of things on Kickstarter. And I've had some good results, and some not as good. More good than not though.
But I typically am backing development tools, dev boards, some end-user gadgets/sensors. Nothing that I am counting on, or that I expect will be a building block of my home.
I was talking about this the other day. There are so many neat things in my feeds that are all wifi based cloud crap. I mean I would spend good money on a good local based christmas light set up that I could program. Everything for that though is cloud based. ugh.......I honestly believe that the reason people buy cloud based hubs and devices is because they thrive in abusive relationships...
I have to say that one of the best Kickstarter's I dealt with was the Securifi Almond+. That combo router/home automation hub really kicked me into Home Automation again (I had dabbled with X10 in the past). I have also had good luck with Snapmaker and a couple others. But I have also had some gigantic failures in Kickstarter and some that turned out to be outright scams... so I am on there very rarely anymore.
My Neurio still works, is still hooked up. I do not use the app or such but I wrote a driver for my Hubitat for it so I get the basic info in. But in reality a lot of these energy monitoring devices have done nothing for me. They have not changed my behavior (if something is/was on, it had a reason). Is it "neat" to see... sure... but I am far more interested in the rest of my home automation activities (or prepping for whatever the next holiday my family wants me to set lighting for or build new decorations for).
I still have an ancient TED1001 sitting on the kitchen counter. I look at it when I'm in the area. Not a bad habit to look at it before leaving the house, or an unusually high load reading (like a forgotten space heater). I look at the monthly projected as well. I don't think home automation has saved me any money, lol.
I have a second set of CTs for when I run the portable generator, but that's somewhat iffy because I switch between 240 and 120 v generators. Will be getting a standby generator in the spring, so that'll be a little more straightforward. I didn't realize Generac's overpriced thing was based on Neurio.
(They should too--I can actually automate it that way, not just show off by controlling from my phone or by voice.) I used the "hat" for the meter because it was neat to see real-time usage, though whether that actually worked seemed flaky to me--lots of gaps in the data.
