KeyInCode locks, bigger opportunity

Whatever the reason(s), it’s pretty unlikely they were just waiting for someone to suggest it to them.

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@bobbyD

I wasn’t suggesting Hubitat collects data off their devices, but lordly Lordy I would hope Hubitat is collect data from customer interactions, this forum, support request, etc… if not then someone isn’t doing their job!

They do this all the time.

But most customers don’t suggest they make a core change to how they run their business. Some people do though.

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@marktheknife Hubitat is in the hardware business and in one that’s been growing for years, a business that X10 commanded and made millions in, so much so that others organized against them… all I’m suggesting is that they consider it. You might be surprised that they are considering it and maybe need someone to bring it up for further discussion.

We would all be surprised. I have no idea what they have considered nor what they have planned. That’s why it makes little sense for any of us to suggest to them which direction to take their business plan.

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I can certainly comment on the data collection aspect. Unlike cloud based platforms that collect users' data, Hubitat customers' data stays on their hubs. So for all those who would kill for the data, they can rest assured, Hubitat cannot be their next victim.

THANK YOU so much for this. This is why I bought a Hubitat!

While there may be other systems that also offer this, Hubitat is the only one for which you can buy off the shelf hardware and that engages and appreciates their users.

The other related space in which a product with Hubitat's qualities seems to be missing is security cams - either cobble your own hardware and software together, which has a high barrier to entry, or buy one that is cloud based. I'd love to buy one that is local, offers cloud access as a subscription and respects user privacy and does not sell my data.

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You suggested earlier that we have "insights and data on which is most used". Based on customer interactions we have data on which devices cause most problems. Most people don't voluntarily come out in the community or create warranty cases to let us know how well a device works, although that would be nice to hear from time to time. :slight_smile:

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@bobbyD That, to a degree, is even better because that’s the lowest-hanging fruit to go after in the marketplace. Ie. “Man, 70% of our calls are about light switches not reporting status!?” Data point, an opportunity to create light switches that guarantee reporting status.

It’s all a matter of perspective, and I’m one that sees the opportunities within data withOUT compromising Privacy.

Also, I would add that Hunitat can put out Polls or Surveys without collecting personalized data.

This problem has already been solved by nearly everything made in the last 7 or so years since the relevant Lutron patent expired. :slight_smile: (I know this was just an example, but the fact that these devices exist--and have for a while now--shows that anyone, including Hubitat, making such a device doesn't mean everyone will use it.)

This reminds me: if you're just looking for things that the community and sometimes staff like, there were "X of the Year" posts at the end of 2021 where people voted on their favorite devices by category. The landscape really hasn't changed much since then (seems like they might have thought about doing this again last year but never did, but maybe by the end of this year things could get exciting again...). Most of the "favorites" from these polls, and the runner-ups, if still available, are still ones I'd recommend personally.

Hubitat's Z-Wave engineer also made a post once with his favorite Z-Wave devices by category. Few have said anything about Zigbee, but CentraLite products (now owned by Ezlo but still marketed under this name) are generally well loved. They've also OEMed products for others in the past, and if Hubitat did such a thing (and CentraLite still did this--I'm not sure they do), I'd imagine it being something like that...so just go get the CentraLite directly instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, while we do get surprises sometimes, my suspicion is that the above is as close as we're ever likely to get...

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To add to what @bertabcd1234 wrote, the fact that Samsung got out of the business of manufacturing zigbee devices, suggests this is not a lucrative business model. Other prominent failures include Iris.

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Well, there was a 2022 Product of the Year thread, but for some reason it is gone. It's linked to in this discussion:

Everyone was cooking Matter and not many new devices were released in 2022, so the list wouldn't have been any different than the prior year, as indicated by the thread to submit new devices, which wasn't very popular.

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Based on that logic, it seems unlikely that Hubitat should exist given Samsung's exit from the ST market, yet here we are. There's no single X-10-style replacement that runs on Zigbee/Z-Wave and provides a full product lineup; Ikea is the closest, but no locks. Amazon would come next.

Looking at SimpliSafe (aside from privacy concerns), it's worth ten times more than Hubitat because of its unified offering. My 65-year-old mother managed to set it up. Contrast that to the complexity of Hubitat and HA, which require programming knowledge.

Furthermore, some security companies are getting into smart devices and could create a DVR with Zigbee/Z-Wave integration. This could include locks, cameras, switches, and automation, all managed by the same device. Such a scenario would pose a challenge for Hubitat, since it isn't a DVR and people are already asking how to integrate cameras. This would make Hubitat more complex compared to a single solution that simply works. Money talks and this is a big opportunity that Hubitat should consider. A single simple open-source hardware solution that works.

I respect people's opinion of not wanting Hubitat to change their course, I'm just making conversation.

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I believe Ezlo has the potential to become a widely-used platform. From a business perspective, it makes sense for Hubitat to offer products that are compatible with their platform, including offering those with open-source firmware.

I think you’re missing the point.

You seem to be approaching this discussion like a business consultant, giving advice (i.e. your opinion) on what Hubitat Inc. should, or should not, be doing to grow their market share, “make millions,” etc.

But there’s a difference between a consultant and a customer.

Consultants are asked, by the company, to do what they do. And they have access to proprietary or confidential information customers do not.

Suggestions from customers can be unsolicited, of course. But customers can only reasonably speak to their own experiences, or a new feature they would like to see because of what it would do for them (the customers), not the company.

Edit: it’s unreasonable for customers to assume they know enough about a specific company and its internal workings to make suggestions that would purportedly benefit the company itself.

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@marktheknife I despise the term 'consultant', but you are correct that I'm taking that angle, as I've advised many and helped them make money, so it's in my nature. I'm simply a customer, so I took a deep dive into Hubitat and the industry. That said, why wouldn't Hubitat want input from customers, newbies, etc.? I'm not making demands, just pointing out what I'm seeing.

We're already seeing lots of integrated single-point solutions, like Alexa, Ring, 2Gig, Ezlo and SimpliSafe. I predict that, without facts to back it up, in the next few years we'll see even more. Maybe I'm wrong, but at some point the Hubitat founders are going to want to retire and exit? The reality is that time and competition don't stand still, and either you create a business to pass on to your children, or you create a company to sell for a high price, or you sell to employees who wanted to make a change but didn't because the founders didn't want change, but you aren't walking away with millions via this method.

I firmly support Hubitat and there's nothing wrong with striving for a better version. Right now, Hubitat is a single-point solution and product with limited growth potential, for example, an integration with Simplisafe and Alexa that doesn't come with the same privacy concerns. Instead of making a one-time profit of $50-100, Hubitat could make money off each lock, switch, detector, light, and so on that, we buy, wouldn't you want that for Hubitat?

Let me add this, why isn't Hubitat, at a MINIMUM, have a list of devices that they know with confidence work with Hubitat to sell via Dropship or Affiliate link to a shop that will commission them?

Because it comes with an air of "I know better than you" which is supported by the constant "they should be doing XX" statements.

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That’s kind of my point.

Since you’re not a consultant to this particular company, you’re making any number of assumptions, based on a lack of insider information, that could be entirely invalid.

If you personally want to buy devices directly from Hubitat Inc., then by all means leave that feedback here.

But to suggest that they must be doing something wrong, or should be doing something differently, or insisting on receiving an explanation for reality not aligning with your preferences, just doesn’t make sense to me.

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