4k+, the 2023 version. The only difference is one is Wi-Fi only and one is WIFI or Ethernet. The latter is the one I have it set up on (I guess that was my intention anyway) My nano leaf bulbs are connected over thread. To my knowledge these are the only thread devices I currently have.
Only the model with Ethernet has a Thread radio. Both will act as an Apple Home Hub, but only one will be a Thread Border Router.
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Other examples are the Nest Hub Max, some of the newer Amazon Echo devices, I think Googles Wifi Mesh does it too. Home Assistant's SkyConnect dongle does Thread also.
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Amazon Echo 4 is what I use, and it's not reliable for me.
The last couple of days I've had to reboot it daily in order for my Matter bulbs to work.
Smartthings /Aeotec V3 hubs also have a TBR; I've never been able to get it to work.
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If you haven't seen it yet, Nanoleaf updated their firmware on March 20 (Nanoleaf doesn't seem to support Matter's automatic firmware update, but it is easy to update your devices using the Nanoleaf app). I've been testing the beta of the update and its a huge increase in reliability (they updated from the older SDK using Matter 1.1 to updated Matter 1.2 SDK and updated openthread SDK). Now if only Eve would do the same with their products!
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Yes, Thread is a mesh network topology and therefor may need repeaters if you don't have multiple TBRs from the same manufacturer that adeqautly cover your home, or if the manufacuters don't eventually allow their TBRs to work together (this is planned to eventually happen)
Eve Energy 4th gen and Eve Energy Outlet are two examples of Thread repeaters.
I had heard one was in beta, but i hadn't seen it. Just looked and there is an update, so picking it up now.
Be sure to update the Nanoleaf app too. At least on iPhone, there was also an issue with their app that would cause bulbs to disconnect from the Apple Home system - its odd that an app bug would do that, but that also got fixed.
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I think I got that update yesterday. I will double check. I have had that problem with bulbs disconnecting from Apple home, so it’s welcome!
Finally found a use case for Matter. I have two primary hubs that watchdog each other.
Hub1 has Zigbee & Zwave active and watches Hub2, including a Zigbee power plug to use if nothing else helps to reboot Hub2.
Hub2 has both of those disabled but does watch Hub1, it now has a Kasa Matter KP125 smart plug to use if it needs to reboot Hub1. Hub2 does most of my IP based devices anyway, so this just seemed to fit.
I probably over engineered this...but needed a reason to stop hating on 'Matter' and embrace it. So far a week later, all is good (enough).
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The ability for Thread Border Routers (TBRs) from different vendors to work together (by which I mean they join into one unified thread network) happened with Thread 1.3 (about a year ago), Still a lot of confusion out there about this as many publications don't seem to know this and publish old information. At least Apple and Google use version 1.3 (I have both and they do work together seamlessly). I think Amazon does too, but I'm less certain.
Is there a way to verify a shared thread network? What tools are you using? I saw an article (Why Thread is Matter’s biggest problem right now - The Verge) indicating that they were able to work together, but I've got no way to verify.
Yes. You need a DNS-SD browser tool. On iPhone, I use this one:
- On your local domain, you look for an entry "_meshcop._upd"
- Select "_meshcop._udp" and you will then see your active border routers
- For each border router, you can then look in its TXT Record. The entry tv= shows the version of thread. The entry nn= shows the current thread network.
- You'll know they are all working together if the nn= entries are all the same.
- Note that when you first set up a thread network, or add an additional border router, it can take some time (e.g., a day) for TBRs to unify / join together, so don't be surprised if you have a newly added border router and it hasn't joined with the others right away. I had this problem when I first added Google Nest WiFi pro access points into a network originally created with Apple TV TBRs. I was incredibly frustrated that I could not get these to join together. Waited a day, checked again, and it did it itself (really nice - just wish I knew it all happened automatically)
There are other Apple apps that do similar DNS-SD network browsing function (e.g., "flame" is another such app), and I'm sure there are similar apps on Android, but I don't have specific ones to mention
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Thank you!! That tool helped confirm my shared thread network with two Apple TVs, three Nest Hub Maxes, and three Nest Wifi Pros,
Just to add something different for everyone, my network started the other way. I had the Hub Maxes first, then added the WiFi Pros shortly after they were released, and only recently added the Apple TVs (last November). So, I started with Google and added Apple to my thread network. I do have an iPhone that was used to set everything up, but I believe the Google Home app can sync everything as long as there is one Apple device (iPad or iPhone) that has it installed.
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Interesting... I see my AppleTV as the TBR that I used to set up my handful of Matter devices through HomeKit, and I also see my Amazon Echo Show that I have not used to set up anything. Per your notes, they don't seem to be linked due to a different "nn=" value. Is there a way to link them?
What's the tv= value of the echo show?
IF they are both tv=1.3.0, then it may be that the TBRs may only join together if needed to form the best routes. So if device A, B, C all have a "best route" through the Apple TV and don't need the Echo Show, then maybe it doesn't get included. Not 100% sure. Also, maybe pair devices to both Apple and Alexa - perhaps that is what forces them to join. You can usually pair 4 or more controllers to a device (Apple uses 2 controller slots - one on each device is dedicated to managing the fabric ID connections, the other is for control - seems a waste, but that's what they do).
I just checked my Amazon Echo (4th gen) and it lists the TV as 1.1.1. All of my my Apple devices are at 1.3.0.
Thanks for sharing the info for how to check this. Very useful!
All of my Apple devices show as being part of the same Thread Network (TN). The Amazon Echo has its own TN.
I am not even using Matter over Thread, yet. But it is nice to see this data.
Thanks again!
Per the Verge article, this is expected. " Amazon’s lone Alexa border router — the Echo fourth-gen smart speaker — is still on 1.1. Amazon spokesperson Connor Rice says the speaker “supports all Thread 1.3.0 features required of Matter devices.”
Also, the article states, " Currently, Amazon border routers will only work on a network set up by their devices (some Eero Wi-Fi routers and Echo fourth-gen smart speakers) and won’t join an existing Thread network nor allow devices from other manufacturers to join their networks.
According to Amazon’s Rice, the company plans to fix this soon: “We’re currently previewing an API with developers for Thread credential sharing that will enable, with the customer’s consent, the device maker to read Thread credentials through an Alexa Skill,” Rice says. When it arrives, this Skill will allow Amazon’s Echo smart speakers to join existing networks, as well as allow border routers from other manufacturers to join an Amazon Thread network."
Yeah, Apple is regarded as having the best OTBR support. If you use the discovery app and search for "_trel._udp" you'll also see a list of border routers that support TREL (Thread Radio Encapsulation Layer). As far as I know, its only Apple that supports it (my Google WiFi doesn't have it). TREL is a really helpful "option" for thread - it let's the router encapsulate Thread messages into wifi or ethernet packets, thus overcoming the speed limit of thread. Basically, once a packet hits a TREL router, it then gets sent by wifi/ethernet to its final destination - thus going direct to the controller and skipping slower mesh jumps. If you have several Apple TVs, they effectively increase the bandwidth of thread. I understand that thread 1.3.1 (which is supposed to be finalized this spring) will make this mandatory. Waiting to see if that happens and how long it takes to get into product.
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That Discovery app rocks - thank you!!
It looks like my Apple TV and Nest Hub Max are both on the same nn = NEST-PAN-8C08... Since I bought the Nest Hub long before the ATV, that makes total sense.
Is there any way to force/induce Apple to "take over" the nn, or is that not even a big deal as long as both are on it?
