Insanity with "Smart" Recessed Lights

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1

So I have been installing some Juno (Acuity Brand) wf6c Zigbee canless recessed lights. My plan is to put then in 3 rooms. There are 15 in one room and 4 in the second that I have already installed. These are the only wafer style canless smart lights that I could find that are legal to install in US because they have a junction box integrated with them.

As I connected each light, I paired it so there was only 1 ready to pair. This worked great even though I turned power off as I added each light. Fast forward to today and I have two rooms installed - 15 on one circuit and 4 on another so two rooms finished. Now I cannot get all of the lights to activate. I seem to keep losing connection with some. I have three of the Tuya Zigbee USB repeaters installed, also. I am not sure why I keep losing connection to some lights.

They are still wired to dumb switches so I was able to turn them on and off 5 times to reset them. When I try to pair again, the HE only finds about half of them. After I get those set up, I try pairing again. Sometimes it will find 1 or 2 more. Then I can turn the lights off with the dumb switch once and back on. Often, I will get a couple more lights to pair, but I can never get the last 3 to 5 lights to pair. Every time I go through the factory reset, I get a different group that will not pair. I am at a loss.

Further, my plan was to add something like Zooz scene controller switches to control these. Once I do that, I will no longer have the ability to do the factory reset because there won't be a dumb switch. If I use the breaker, it will affect other rooms and they will need to be paired again. I am at my wits end and about ready to throw all of this out and go with dumb lights. Please help! :angry:

2

Unfortunately, these lights are likely repeaters and every time you turn them off to try to join the rest, the mesh is then trying to repair itself.

3

So basically, I should get rid of all of these lights and get dumb lights and switches. There is no way to reset a light individually without disconnecting the wiring while hot and then touch the contacts 5 times to turn on and off. That is more insanity. If this is the case, the lights should not be able to be sold because they cannot operate as intended.

Hopefully, someone else has a workaround??

4

Also, if I do a factory reset, all 15 go into pairing mode. Why can't HE find them all? Is there a limit on how many it will find at a time? I have the HE and 3 repeaters so they should make a sufficient mesh on their own, I'd think. Then lights would just add to it??

5

What does the zigbee routing table look like. Sounds like a routing issue. If they are all repeaters then I can see why its so haphazard.

6

Is this the table?

Parent child parameters
EzspGetParentChildParametersResponse [childCount=0, parentEui64=0000000000000000, parentNodeId=65535]

Child Data

Neighbor Table Entry
[FR Juno 04, 3F0B], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[FR Juno 15, 4954], LQI:197, age:4, inCost:7, outCost:1
[Master Bedroom Repeater, 49E4], LQI:202, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:7
[FR Juno 09, 539B], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[GB Juno 01, 5645], LQI:77, age:7, inCost:7, outCost:0
[null, 5E52], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[FR Juno 11, 6E7F], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[null, 6E94], LQI:234, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:1
[null, 7467], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[FR Juno 07, 7575], LQI:225, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:1
[FR Juno 10, ADCF], LQI:255, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[FR Juno 08, B170], LQI:255, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[Kitchen Repeater, D263], LQI:255, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
[FR Juno 14, E26C], LQI:245, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:1
[FR Juno 06, FAAC], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[Fam Room Repeater, FBC4], LQI:255, age:4, inCost:1, outCost:1

Route Table Entry
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [GB Juno 04, 91D6] via [Fam Room Repeater, FBC4]
status:Unused
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 11, 6E7F] via [FR Juno 11, 6E7F]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 06, FAAC] via [FR Juno 06, FAAC]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 14, E26C] via [FR Juno 04, 3F0B]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 03, E957] via [Fam Room Repeater, FBC4]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 15, 4954] via [Fam Room Repeater, FBC4]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 10, ADCF] via [FR Juno 10, ADCF]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 08, B170] via [FR Juno 08, B170]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 02, 7F77] via [Fam Room Repeater, FBC4]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 07, 7575] via [FR Juno 07, 7575]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [GB Juno 03, 8313] via [GB Juno 01, 5645]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 01, 947B] via [null, 7467]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [null, 0B66] via [null, DCDB]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [null, F79A] via [Kitchen Repeater, D263]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [null, ED68] via [Master Bedroom Repeater, 49E4]

7

Yes, I assume that "Juno XX" are the lights in question?

This line:
[FR Juno 04, 3F0B], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
This bulb is a neighbor to the Hub and does not route through another device. Straightforward as long as it remains the same.

Take this line for example:
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [FR Juno 14, E26C] via [FR Juno 04, 3F0B]

To get to #14 it routes through #4.

This is all well and good if these bulbs remain powered up (not necessarily lit, but power applied) , but when you hit the wall switch (truly powered off) all of the routes get hosed up and then it takes a while to rebuild the mesh and then your Zigbee commands are not going to get through..

I prefer bulbs that don't route like the Sengled.

P.S. Depending on how serious you are you can buy and Xbee which allows you to visualize your Zigbee network.

1 Like
8

Well.. not really. You can get a ladder to reach the bulb and unscrew it in/out 5 times to reset.
I've done that a number of times on the few smart bulbs I have. It works, and is safe.
Annoying, yes. But works without your extreme example of disconnecting wires hot.

Nevermind.... That obviously is a bad comment for hard wired cans. I missed that detail!

9

For smart lights you should get smart switches with 'smart bulb' mode. They keep the power on and the bulbs are controlled by the hub. There is a way on the switches to physically cut the power to the bulbs. Zooz and Inovelli are 2 popular brands for that capability.

Here is what your issue probably is, though. And you are going to get frustrated. You probably need a dedicated hub for these bulbs. See #4 in the ' Tips for designing your Zigbee mesh' section:
https://docs2.hubitat.com/en/how-to/build-a-solid-zigbee-mesh

And you will see that others have had issues with those particular bulbs & Hubitat.

1 Like
11

The lights are hard-wired canless so that is not an option, but I wish I could just unscrew them. Great idea, though!

1 Like
12

My plan is to get some Zooz switches. It is easy enough to change the wiring so the lights have power all the time. Just been tinkering with turning on and off to get things to pair. It actually works to an extent.

I just can't get all of the lights to pair. If I do a factory reset, HE will not find all 15. Usually, it finds about half of them at once. Try pairing again in HE app and it may find a couple more. Then I have to tinker with flipping power off and on. I usually get o the point I have about 12 paired and then it won't discover anymore. Does HE have a limit on how many devices it can find at once?

13

Oh!!! Sorry about that, I misunderstood/misread.

Yes, that would be MUCH more painful! I see your point.

14

You may want to consider using the Inovelli Blue dimmers if you are going to control Zigbee lights:

15

You don't even have to change the wiring. There is an option in the driver for Zooz switches and dimmers to keep power to the devices at all times (smart bulb mode), that way you can just change the option back and cut power to the lights if necessary. This is assuming you can get them all joined and working. The joining process must be timing out on the lights before the hub can get to all of them. It's a shame they don't have some kind of plug connector like some can lights have. If you're using a C-8 hub, you might try experimenting with the power output on the zigbee radio to see if turning it up or down gives you better results.

16

Only reason I would change the wiring is because I am in a 4-way setup. Simple enough to get power to all switch locations to power the switch and just have the lights hot all the time. That makes switch options simpler.

Unfortunately, I bought my HE a few weeks before the C-8 came out so nothing to play with there.

The joining process timing out too early seems like a real possibility. I wonder how long the lights stay in pairing mode. The HE usually finds about 8 lights in the first 15-20 seconds of pairing.

17

If you could power each one up by itself on a test bench of sorts, then join and configure and power off one by one. Then move them to their final location and they should work. I would imagine that bulbs only stay in pairing mode for 30 seconds or so.

18

I'll have to do something like that. They are all hard-wired in the ceiling so I'll have to take them down to do that. I will get as many paired as I can so I don't have to remove as many. At least they come out of the ceiling reasonably simply. Just hope they don't get out of sync too often because that will be very annoying in the future.

I've had another issue. In the other room, I have been able to get all 4 lights connected. I used the room lighting app to set them up. The app will turn only 3 lights on, but it will turn all 4 off. I checked and they are all set up the same in the app. Seems strange. I can turn the 4th light on in the device setting and then the app will turn all 4 off. That is how I checked. Any thoughts on that?

19

I always create a group for lights that I want to control at the same time in the groups and scenes app and enable zigbee group messaging.

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20

After the last update, I don't even see anything for making groups.

21

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