In this era of IOT w/ affordable cellular radios, might this be a good idea ...for say a C10/c?

The other day, when experiencing some broadband/network problems, I was comforted by the fact that all the operations relied upon through HE oversight & management 24/7 were fully functional.

Thus the merit of "local" in "Automation". But when thinking about this...there are still a number of advisory things for which we rely upon the network for. Therefore the total solution as many of us implement, is really not fully "local".

This gets one thinking about all the functional IOT devices out there now that stay pretty well connected via Cellular Data connections.

I don't know the statistics but I would bet in any 30 day period you might have just as much, if not more, uptime success getting data (or even a modest SMS msg) through a Cellular Data connection than you might in getting a data packet over your local broadband connection. Of course, that is assuming you have a good cell connection in the first place.

And then there is the redundancy factor that having such capability onboard a HE box would bring.

Something to toss the Pros & Cons about...but I bet there is a market for an HE Cxx/c box, not necessarily excluding the Ethernet connection...but including the cellular capability (no SIM card necessary anymore).

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Such as?

How would the hub connect to the cell network without a SIM card?

IMO a built-in cellular data modem for backup internet access would not be a cost-effective addition to a future Hubitat hardware revision.


Perhaps he means without a physical SIM card. You'd still need an eSIM to connect to cellular for anything other than dialing 911.


So basically similar to Ring alarm with cellular backup? This isn't a bad idea since it will bring in more subscriptions and extra reliable layer for people with remote home/location.


I came to Hubitat from Lowes IRIS, and that was all backed up by cellular modem back then... It was like an additional $10 a month or something like that...

Lowes dumped it and I had to find something to accommodate all my 1st gen zigbee and z-wave devices... That being said, I liked IRIS... Wasn't very local and didn't have the integrations of Hubitat, but it had built in cellular backup.

But Ring Alarm is, as the name suggests, an alarm system :slightly_smiling_face:.

They offer central monitoring and you can get a certificate that’s good for homeowners insurance discounts, so the cellular backup is a core feature in that context.

I get that use cases for a built-in cellular backup modem exist, but I disagree that it should be baked into Hubitat hardware at some point.


It's actually Wifi alarm system and Cellular is for backup so I would call it a core feature.
Whether we agree or not. It's a good feature for many reasons. Will HE staffs implement this? Only they know.


I think it would not be cost effective. It be a waste of hardware on the majority of users and it probably runs counter to the spirit of HE running local.

That said nothing stopping anyone from having cellular failover on their local network to serve key systems.

My alarm system (Qolsys) has built in Cellular and they have different SKU's for the different mobile networks. That alone would be cost prohibitive for e a small company.


Sorry I meant that was a core part of the central monitoring and insurance discount they advertise. As in, it would be impossible to provide that insurance certificate without backup means of communication during an alarm event.

I’m sure not everyone with ring hardware subscribes to all the available services, but Ring markets itself differently than Hubitat (where the staff explicitly disclaim using the hub as an alarm system).

Ten years ago I would have agreed.

I donno about that, there are a number of folks in the community that run an HE hub in remote vacation homes or even outbuildings. Many of those folks probably would like an alternative to running some 365 day a year broadband solution out there for such modest use. I'm probably not the only one running a wireless bridge out to an outbuilding more-or-less for the hub.

A lot of this has been addressed. You can buy any single SKU phone online unlocked (w/o provider) and have the provider provision it w/o a problem. The world of IOT cellular connectivity has further broken down the silos.

I believe you see this as inherently appealing because you could use it?

I still question its value to the Hubitat user base as a whole.

The only thing I know for certain is I don’t need it and would prefer the devs spend their time and other resources elsewhere.


I'm not sure you have worked on products in your career. You are perhaps blinded by your personal desire here. You clearly do not understand the cost involved. There is a solution to your need for your network. Makes little sense to put the solution in each product when you can have it for your environment.


I can go back across a wide array of product platforms over the last, hummm....let's just go 40 years..., and come up with countless examples of "holy cow, company xyz has abc in their box now" and a corollary exclamation of "oh, geez, that means I can do THIS with their box which I never expected or ever thought to do...but WOW, it's great to be able to".

As tech shrinks in size and price...all of a sudden people think about "putting stuff in" that was never considered an option before...and doing so is a lot more modular than it EVER was in the past. Adding cellular radio capability isn't a DARPA Project anymore, it is indeed OFF THE SHELF and has been employed by much less capable platforms than the HE Hub. There are little IOT gizmos with it now.

Anybody remember the first Sensaphone box? Used them to monitor computer and other temperature sensitive rooms in the day. I dare say "a broadband connection" was the last path of evolution for that nifty little affordable box... and cellular connectivity is likely a prominent attribute in their product line today taking over from landlines.

Sure, we can argue that we're talking a different class of box for a different market(s)...but after a while what was "commercial/industrial" ends up being prosumer, and eventually...general consumer. In fact, there are folks in this Community tasking their Hubitat boxes with important enough tasks that onboard cellular connectivity would be a COMFORT.

Sensaphone started out JUST AS SMALL as Hubitat; and actually....from a quick glance it looks like they are STILL pretty small...yet their product line seems to have a healthy assortment of kit.

i prefer HE stay on the path of integrating with IoT devices locally, and i can always get a router from a phone carrier if i needed that for my home. a lot of individuals use their ISP for primary, and have a phone carrier router as a backup in case their ISP did have issues

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Nobody is arguing that its not possible. It just doesn't make practical sense for the reasons stated.

I'm your vintage. I did learn programming when punch cards existed. I've also worked on products for cellular and computing at places like Apple. Many of those products never saw production, but some were transformed into things like the iPhone.

The cost is still a factor. It's the cost of the hardware, carrier and support. Adding complexity adds cost.

I've read some of your posts going back a few years. I don't want to chill your enthusiasm in any way really. It's fun to be excited about technology and I like how you have a gen Z excitement with a more vintage pedigree.

If this had the same needs as other products with built in cellular I could argue the value as well. If it were trying to be a life safety device with certification or it were a mobile product that would help.

Be realistic here. This is like adding Bluetooth to an iSeries. You can do it, but it's just not needed.

Like what?

A quick browse of that site suggests most of their products aren’t even close to Hubitat’s price point or focus on home prosumers that prefer to avoid cloud dependencies.

Wow! Off topic but that brings back memories of being awakened at 3 AM and told that the computer room was hot. I've still got an audio clip of it. "The temperature is high. The electricity is on. Sound level OK. Battery level OK. Alert condition OK. Listen to the sound level for 15 seconds."

But as to your feature suggestion, I'd prefer the hub stay a hub and not try to be a jack of all trades. Cellular Internet connectivity can be added to a network and serve multiple purposes.

Such a thought provoking idea! Maybe like a high availability remote access subscription.

Imagine if it adds $50 to the cost to build a hub, $75 to the sell price of the hub, and $10/mo for service through HE. If it generated $6/mo in profit for HE could be a good source of ongoing revenue.

Under this scenario, I wonder how many would opt in for it?

Makes me think of a cellular plan for your car. I’ve never understood it, but it could be a steady revenue source for the automaker and provides some benefit for the car owner (or they wouldn’t pay for it).


cellular networks go out too.. look at the last att outage most of a day..

anyway i have a cellular backup in my houses mostly becuase one is empty 6 months of the year.

i basically only use them with kasa wifi switches to be able to reboot my main cable network/switches/router/modem if it is down for some reason.. it has served me pretty well.