They are very different products and not really aimed at the same users - unless they're just looking at home automation options.
Personally I do think there's a place for both in any enthusiasts arsenal but for those who are more passingly playing with Home automation for the first time, and from there it is ongoingly very capable, HE will sit better.
I definitely get that frustration. i was there a few times until i finally got a handle on things. took me forever to install HACS so i could install the HE integration. Since I'm running it on a VM, I just create a snapshot each time I successfully do something. I also create a backup from HA. This way if I ever break anything, I just roll back the snapshot and am as good as new
I guess that depends on the definition of break. I have less than ten devices left on my hubitat hub, all zwave+, along with 1 RM rule and the maker integration. Yet Hubitat has required reboots twice this month. That's twice more than HA has broken on me.
I agree with the earlier comment that the problem isn't with the hub being underpowered.
I do of course believe there are a lot of people who have had a flawless experience with HE, but how can I recommend HE to anyone knowing that it's a crap shoot which experience they'll get?
Yes..indeed ! I meant break as in just 'not run' at all which is a constant worry when you press the HA update button or edit configuration.yaml.
Yes, this alluded to the speed degradation that some do see. Once you have HA stable it tends to run for a long time, if not indefinitely... but that 'update available' button goads you ... I don't install .0 releases anymore, and if I can await .2
I really like both - for me they complement each other very well (along with MQTT and Node-RED)
I think "breaks" caused by corrupted rules would fall into this category. Or non corrupted rules that just sometimes wouldn't fire. And once the rules is corrupt, there's no easy way to rebuild a rule other than completely starting over. This drove me insane and is why I refused to put anything complex in RM.
You nailed it above. RM should be the automation engine of choice. And the fact that so many others are seeking other options like HA, WebCoRe, Node-Red... it should be a giant flashing neon warning sign that there's a problem that needs addressing.
While HA/WebCoRE/Node-Red all have some sort of "rules" system you can employ - they seem like they are different in scope/type: WebCoRE is a replacement for RM, HA seems more like an opensource HE, and Node-Red is a device/system agnostic visual control/management system. So maybe slightly different reasons for implementing each of them.. I'm not sure RM's design is really the primary issue for the most part though it can be a factor.
Looking at HE as a device manager is also not necessarily a bad thing. It plays to the strengths of the device. As long as HE continues to connect to a large variety of devices and be as flexible (and local) as it has been without forcing me into any commitments I don't want I will continue to recommend it to my friends and residential clients and keep upgrading as newer models come out.
Disclaimer: I used to use WebCoRE on SmartThings and now use Node-RED but have not yet played around with HA.. I started using NR as a way to relieve issues/offload processing from my HE hubs, give myself even greater control over my setup with the possibility to incorporate many different systems and prevent lock-in to a single proprietary platform. Of course a side benefit was also the ease of rule creation/management..
edit: I do not believe the folks at Hubitat would lock us in to anything but the point remains that they are a for profit company subject to financial pressures etc so things can change. HE is still a proprietary system even though it is amazingly adaptable and the user accessible parts are "open".
As a new h.a user I can 100% say both. If I could only have one though, h.e. Itās only been 2 days and I already messed up my h.a. Couldnāt imagine all my stuff being strictly on there. H.a is too easy to ābreakāwhile learning, I personally wouldnāt want it to be my only hub while learning
Easy to break while learning is very true. But once you've learned it, it's more powerful than anything else I've ever used.
I was listening to a podcast yesterday and they pretty much nailed it when describing HA. It's more of a "pro-sumer" product. Although in the past year they've been operating with the motto of "make it easier", it's certainly not the right platform for somebody just starting their journey in home automation.
Their long-term goal is to be able to have everything setup strictly with the GUI which would then make it more of a consumer product, but they've got a long way to go for that.
I dunno if constantly tweaking the little things is all that exciting any more. I mean I love to mess with stuff but others around me have less patience - wife/family/clients etc..
HA does seem like a hackers dream which is appealing but my needs nowadays skew towards making automation simple (to the end user), functional and usable and keeping it that way over the long haul with as low maintenance as possible..
I will likely take the plunge at some point for ..... "reasons"..
why isn't it starting? There are logs galore! Is this validating @bravenel stance that more logs and debug tools are pointless because people can't/won't understand them?
It's in a VM... so troubleshoot it or re-install. It takes 10 minutes to re-install on a slow system so why the 2 days of downtime?
I did it 2x and even paid an expert $30 on fiivver. He couldnāt either. He THINKS itās the latest windows update. It start perfect but then I canāt acess the GUI. Spent 4 hrs trying and $50. 2 fiver guys. I quit, Iām just buying a linux nuc
Umm... a nuc is just a intel pc... YOU have to install Linux on it and maintain that. Which umm sounds like it will be a problem.
What VM system are you running? Hyper-V? on what Windows 10 or something? I run several VM's including a dev HASS VM in virtualbox on my Windows 10 system without issue but run most of my prod stuff on my UnRaid system or on individual rPi's.
Why not just get a rPi and flash an SD card with HASS.IO and then you have a quick, cheap and easy install. Something to play with.