Nice to see this thread has turned into friendly "we're all old" and here's the computes we first used 
OK, so since we're sharing, MY first computer that was all mine was an Apple II+, but the computer I first used was the one my Dad (a retired engineer for JPL and later TRW) built from scratch.
OK @bravenel. Sorry I asked.
Look... I KNOW that keeping a community happy is a thankless task, and I know that active 'developers' (for which in 99% of cases you could substitute 'tinkerers' without really being too insulting) demand things that stretch you in crazy directions, and god knows, it's likely that at the bottom of nearly every one of these rabbit holes you choose to dive down there's somebody being an idiot at the bottom. It's entirely possible that I am that very idiot.
As far as the selling point is concerned... you're probably right, and I'd be with you entirely - for my 'dream' product, of COURSE I wouldn't need to touch community apps and drivers, or get dirty with any of it myself. Sadly, though... I don't think there's a single product on the planet at the moment that can hit all the use cases like that. So we develop because the choices are otherwise unattractive - there are drivers that I've hacked together because I have a choice between 'don't automate the lights in that room', or 'replace the light fittings in that room', or 'build a driver to support the one vendor of smart lights that does those light fittings'. I'm a techie, not a sparky, so I build the driver.
Ultimately, I think my problem is less about the drivers and apps I run (although I'm SURE that you're technically right - if I was to ditch, for example, influxDB logging, I'm sure the rate of failure would drop), but the fact that fundamentally... I'm doing too much on too little hardware. I'm at 260 devices so far... and I suspect that outside of these forums, that's a lot for your core audience, and it's CERTAINLY a total pain in the arse to run test cases that large all over the place.
You're a commercial outfit, and I (and those like me) are an outlier of an outlier at best.
Fine. As I said before... we're still here for now at least. I've got nothing I can help you with, but by the sounds of things, that's fine - you guys don't want my help anyway.
-- Jules
I had nothing but problems with ST and user defined code. The only community apps that worked without slowing down ST was ST’s apps, RBoys, WebCoRE and a few other paid apps. Many other user apps and device handlers brought the device to a crawl and those developers had zero assistance from ST to troubleshoot. At least the HE team provides code guidance when asked privately or nicely publicly.
I don’t understand the value of this topic as it is all about complaining verses coming together, helping each other and develop good practices. The user app developer community here is very helpful and most of the time are able to provide advice to help many n00bies/novices (me as an example) to develop a new capability. But I will be the first that if the HE staff PM’d me and said we are seeing your application cause problems I would review my code and logic and ask help from the community. More than likely it is my code, logic and the failure to implement correctly due to my lack of knowledge.
Btw I worked at MSFT and even with paid support 99% of the time MSFT goes ahead and ends your support case if it has nothing to do with MSFT. Also MsFT logging is horrendous for developers. Just saying.
I literally know ZERO ST users that do not use at least one user DTH or app. ZERO. And I know hundreds of ST users both through local user groups and work associates. I'm not saying that EVERYONE installs user DTH/apps, just that in my experience it is VERY common on ST.
So, I'm not sure what to tell you on that topic. Because so many of the DTH were made by the community, even very non-technical people have to learn how to install them if they want their $4.99 wifi oddball device to work.
So Bruce's comment earlier that most users don't use user code is simply untrue on ST. And I don't think it will be true long term on HE either, as the user base and needed device driver library grows faster than the HE dev team can create them.
Thus, if true, making the system more resilient to user code errors at the architectural level - and/or providing increased troubleshooting capability for developers (many examples have already been listed) - will have to be a focus area (in my opinion) for the Hubitat team.
I don't see why you would say you don't understand this topic. If you actually read the thread, most of the initial conversation was directly related to enhancing subsystem segregation and improving troubleshooting capability - not complaining. Why would you NOT want that? Why would ANY user or developer not want that?
From what I’ve read in the ST forum over the years, ST has like a million users now, most of them have something like 10 paired devices and have never once logged into the IDE to install custom code (or do anything else). I don’t have any way to independently verify any of that, of course, but I don’t have any trouble believing it.
It was mentioned above that those of us who regularly participate in these online user communities do not represent the average user, and I 100% agree with that.
Without knowing the HE team’s detailed (obviously confidential) plans for expansion, marketing, partnering with other industry players, etc, how could any of us plausibly claim to predict with any certainty that if they don’t focus their limited development resources on any particular issue, the platform will deteriorate and users will abandon it en masse?
We can't. It is just my OPINION. It may be wrong, and it may be off-base, but it is mine nonetheless.
My issue is that your asks which are completely legitimate is great. The problem is the other conversations and frustrations others have surrounding apparently poorly written code and blaming the platform. That is why I don’t understand the topic. It keeps gravitating back to complaining.
Gotcha, and fair enough. I understand now - that wasn't how I read it the first time. And I agree - the thread is all over the place.
Most threads eventually devolve into off topic or complaining. 
This one has evolved to remembrance Day 
Download the Hubitat app
