Hubitat OpenSource Driver Repository - Let's Vote!

It applies because who wouldn't vote for bread (or cake) and circuses? Therefore the vote is predictable. The question is posed in the Developer Category, which means the voter's have been gerrymandered, making the vote even more predictable.

Yes wins the Vote, so move along. :slight_smile: Move to the part where Hubitat picks themselves up off the floor from laughing so hard and releases the source. :smiley:

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Here we go again..............................................

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I did not really want to start another thread flood :slight_smile: but Home Automation is really near to my heart and anytime something breaks or stops working I really love solving the problems myself.

If they ever separate the main hub code and apps but specially the drivers, this can just be an opportunity for expansion and an overall better quality and quantity of drivers.

So HE Team, What is the real issue with releasing the source of just the drivers?

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That’s a pretty definitive statement, particularly without any inside knowledge of how the company is run or their business plans. Can you elaborate on why?

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I say this mainly because the drivers are just a translation of the device specifications (That are publicly available) and the specific Hub interactions, so there is really no secret sauce like with the Apps or Core Hub code.

If they are really speculating or thinking they make money with the drivers, they can go right now and close the house.

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“A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’ "

--Robert A Heinlein

I'm sure an actual writer can say it better than me...

voting for self interest was the point I heard in my head as I typed "cake and circuses"

He also wrote this apparently.. much more succinct :slight_smile:

"Democracy is four wolves and a sheep voting on dinner."

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That's a bold statement. You can believe in the value of open source (and even use it) but not find it's in your right business model right now. Right or wrong, it's their choice and their business choices don't reflect value or opinion on Open Source.

Perhaps what you really mean is that HE right now doesn't have immediate plans to open source any of their platform.

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I already asked for that here Hubitat native drivers - closed or open source?

I’m not a developer and I have no idea why they made the decision not to share their driver code with their customers.

I can only speculate that they’re in a better position to know what’s best for their business than community developers are.

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No.. I'm saying one thing only.. the vote results are predictable. YES will win.

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"Thank you, thank ya vera much"

-- Elvis

First off, I won't be surprised when this gets locked. You can demand or ask all you want, but there is no point. They won't release anything but the samples in their Github. They have repeatedly said so.

They may be using certain specifications (Zwave and Zigbee in particular) but the actual driver or app code is authored by someone. I suppose that someone falls under the Hubitat umbrella. So I don't see how they are open source exactly. I don't think there are many or any commercial hubs that give out all their code.

There are plenty of community drivers and apps that are up to a point open source, you can read or edit or whatever you wish to do with them for your own use, AND as long as you follow the licensing within each app or driver.

So if you want open source I believe the easiest thing you can do is write your own apps/drivers and freely distribute it to everyone for free. They actually encourage that. The other option would be to use something like Home Assistant or whatever they are calling themselves this week, which IS open source.

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As others have said, this has been asked for multiple times, and Hubitat has made it very clear it won't happen.

While it never hurts to ask, it does hurt to ask for the same thing over and over after you've been told "no".

(by "you've" I mean the community as a royal "you", not the OP in particular)

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I agree with you, it is their choice to open source their code, my argument is: how can you expect them to open source their code if they don't respect the open source community as is.

What they don't have a choice in is following the requirements of the open source code they use. The way I see it, there are 2 possibilities. First possibility is that they don't know that they need to list the projects that they use and include disclaimers and license information, if this is the case then I agree with @syepes that they can "close the house" because a company that has no idea what the license requirements of the software they use is a very poorly run business. The other possibility is that they do know what the requirements are and they have chosen to ignore them, this is what I mean when I say that they don't believe in open source. They have no problem using it but when it comes down to actually meeting the requirements of use, apparently they don't care.

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OR

That they got an actual legal opinion and are following THAT advice. :slight_smile:

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I suspect there are more possibilities than you listed. I don't know what they might be but watching the Hubitat folks work for the last two years I am convinced of at least two things:

  1. They do care
  2. They are not naive

John

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I'm sure the EFF would like to hear that one.

I'm sure they care about their customers, its the open source code that they are using unattributed that is the problem.

The recent admission by Bruce would negate that.

I suppose they could continue to feign ignorance, but how long will that last? They have been asked for these attributions more than once and still have not responded. My request was made 19 days ago. What is a reasonable time frame for this considering they've been in business for over 3 years?

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I don't see how your example proves differently.

I'll stop here, I don't see the benefit of dragging out this thread.

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Actually, you missed. We have been aware of this issue, and have taken steps to offer the desired documentation. That effort got sidetracked recently due to resource constraints. Our tardiness in making this available in no way reflects our attitudes about open source software. We do care about open source, as obviously we are a beneficiary of it. The list will be published.

We have our business reasons for keeping the source code that we have developed closed.

This topic has run its useful course.

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