Hubitat ideas for new user

I just purchased a HE controller and finally got it to work. But I have exactly zero devices and heck I don't even know if I should go with Z-wave or Zigbee.

I want to start with something simple that I can actually use to justify the HE purchase. But not sure what. I don't have a smart lock. I mostly have Google Nest smart speakers, some Leviton switches, some Wyze home monitoring sensors, and a samsung smart oven that apparently needs a smarthings hub which I don't have. So I am kind of lost on what I want/can do.

The only automation I have setup currently (without using HE) is some lights that turns on at night and turns off during the day.

It would be nice to have some motion sensor for stairs/garage so I can turn some lights on/off when motion is detected. but how would it work in garage, I don't want the light to shut off after five minutes if I stay in garage for a bit of time. For stairs its fine if the lights shut off after five minutes (it would be nice if we can detect time of day so it only does this during night),

anything else I can do right off the bat?

I don't want to purchase 100 repeaters and switch out a bunch of plugs for nothing. Unsure if I get invested in one system but then things like MATTER takes off two years from now. At the end of day I want something simple and get started right away, instead of spending 1k for repeaters and 20 hours of time installing switches and plugs.

I started years ago with some very small goals. I had a dark hallway closet and it needed a light. I installed a Compact florescent strip in there but to turn it on, I had to lean in and flip the tiny switch that faced away from me. Usually I'd bump my head on the shelf. :slight_smile: really, I needed automation :slight_smile:

I bought a ZWave outlet to replace the one the light was plugged into and a ZWave Contact Sensor. The Hub I bought at the time was "free" with the purchase of two compatible devices. Within an hour, I had a "Fully Automated" closet light.

Thus my advice is to find the ONE THING you really need automated and do that. The next day, find another, do it. 2 weeks later, do a third... that sort of pattern. Find the really important smart tasks you want automated.. not what might be possible.

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Totally doable, and a great place to start.

For the garage, one or two motion sensors talking to the light switch. You might need two if one doesn't have a clear view of the whole garage. Lights are on when motion is detected, and your "timeout" for turning the lights off gets reset every time the motion sensor detects movement.

Same for the stairs, but with a much shorter timeout (I use 1 minute).

Controlling when the lights come on by time of day can be done a half a dozen ways. If your motion sensor supports lux/illuminance, you can do it that way. Say it's the middle of the day, but it's really cloudy out, some light might be nice. Or you can do it by X:XX after Sunrise and X:XX before Sunset.

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So what if that happens? It isn't like your existing Zigbee or Zwave devices will quit working. And it doesn't mean they will stop selling these either.

That is very overblown estimate. At most you might need less than $100 of repeaters, if that. All line powered switches are repeaters, so you just add 1-2 targeted repeaters to fill in gaps in your mesh in most cases.

Well this might be the case no matter what protocol you use. It does take time to install devices, especially switches where you have to understand how they are wired.

I mix these depending upon device type, and whether devices are even available. For the most part I stick with Zwave for switches, and Zigbee for sensors.

But that method has a few perils in that if I don't add some repeating devices to Zigbee, then I would probably need to buy dedicated repeaters to ensure good coverage of my mesh. So I chose to do Zigbee for my outlets and for my RGB drivers because both act like repeaters.

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Thanks! so in order for this to happen and if i don't want to change the bulb to smart one (and light is hardwired), do I need to use a smart switch and connect it to my HE? Lutron seems to be a pain to use (need to get a pro bridge) or something and it sounds expensive?

And it sounds like zwave is better for my use case since its longer range and might be easier to setup for starters?

Whats the cheapest zwave switches i can get? Some are like 50 each so if i get 20 it will be 1000... Any reason for zigbee sensors? why not zwave?

@bugzpodder As said above, think of your goals. Maybe a lock and a light switch. (My preference is to use switches with groups of lights and bulbs with the occasional table lamp). Don't mix smart bulbs with smart switches (unless they're innovelli which has a smart bulb mode)

So for small... Unlock door, hallway lights turn on. That's a simple enough goal. Or a motion sensor... Between sunset and sunrise motion activates light. Build from there. As you do more you'll realize more goals.

Most of us run a mixture of z-wave and zigbee and Lutron (Lutron switches are just tanks)

For z-wave things, if you have a failed pairing stop what you're doing and check your z-wave details page for ghosts. Remove ghost before attempting to pair again.

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Right now, probably Zooz. They are less than $30 each. I suggest dimmers everywhere except where you cannot use them (fluorescent lights, fans, etc).

Inovelli is my other choice for full featured switches, but their stock is spotty recently. They can run closer to $40.

Some or many of the GE/Jasco/Honeywell/Ultrapro (all Jasco products) are inexpensive, but lack features. These are OK, but far from my favorite.

Avoid Leviton in my opinion. They are nothing but headaches for many on this forum.

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Lutron really isn’t a pain, it’s just that you have this extra $100 you need to spend upfront for the bridge. But once it’s setup, adding devices is dead simple, and you will not have the issues that Z-Wave or Zigbee each uniquely present at times. No worries about repeaters unless you live in a very large house.

Best of all, you get access to the excellent, and really inexpensive Pico remotes. Not going to get that any other way than adding the Lutron Smart Bridge Pro. In my opinion, it’s worth the extra cost. Only thing I don’t personally like about CasĂ©ta dimmers is the lack of “last brightness” memory. When you hit the ON button, they are always full brightness. Some people solve this by programming a Pico to control the dimmer and use that instead.

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A few thoughts on your question on how to get started, reflecting on my journey of going all-in on home automation over the past 2 years.

First, the most common class of use cases by far, based on my observation of forum threads and my own experience, is reducing the number of times you have to touch a light switch or dimmer. This is where I’d recommend starting, before going for more esoteric automations like alarm auto-arm/disarm, smart locks, garage doors, presence sensors, HVAC and hot water, all of which we have. Within smart lighting, the control patterns (often combined) that seem to delight my family and friends the most are:

  • motion control, mostly but not always using HE’s built-in motion lighting app. Sensors sometimes come up for $50 for a pack of 10 on eBay, and Alibaba often has cheap sensors too
  • illuminance control. It’s super nice having lights turn on during the day when it’s gloomy outside, but not when the sun is bathing the house in light. Fast sensors like the Xiaomi Mijia are only ~$10
  • groups and scenes, to enable you to control lots of bulbs, dimmers and switches with a single rule, button press or voice command. This is particularly delightful in rooms with lots of lights or where switches are spread across different walls, and in hallways and staircases where not all switches are present at every doorway
  • voice control - e.g. via Alexa or Google. The purists will howl that this is remote control not automation. They’re right. But saying “Alexa, lights on” or “Alexa, it’s movie time” is sometimes more convenient than pulling out your phone or walking to a wall switch

Second, make sure your automation is easily overridden by humans, for the day when you discover a use case that your automation logic hadn’t considered (eg the evening when you want to turn all the lights off in your family room and have them stay off, despite your motion rules, to view fireworks outside or light candles on a birthday cake).

Third, not everything needs HE. E.g. simple use cases like motion lighting in the garage, toilets and closets with light switches on the inside can sometimes be solved with ‘dumb’ motion switches like the Lutron Maestro, which is cheaper and less effort than buying a smart switch and motion sensor and tuning rules in HE. Don’t get me wrong: tinkering in HE is good fun, but there are more interesting use cases to automate than ones for which cheap reliable solutions already exist.

Hope some of that’s helpful. Welcome to the rabbit hole of home automation!

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First of all, welcome to the community. :slight_smile:

I started out more or less the same, when I created my smart home about a year ago. I went with Zigbee for two reasons:

  1. I already had two bulbs and a switch from Ikea, which are Zigbee.

  2. I didn't have and I still don't have tones of money to spend on my smart home and what I found at that time, is that there are more cheap options at the Zigbee spectrum (Sonoff, Tuya etc.), then with Z-Wave. It might be, that I just didn't check good enough, but that was my experience during that time.

But no matter what you decide to use, I would stick with that decision at the beginning. This doesn't mean that you can't use devices from the other spectrum down the road. The reason I recommend sticking with one protocol at the beginning is because you want to create a stable mesh, so that your devices and routines work as flawless as possible. Both protocols have their limitations, especially how far they can transmit. If you want to communicate with your devices all over your place, you are likely to need some repeaters. Luckily, every wired device is a repeater itself (except of bulbs, which are most of the time lousy repeaters, but that's another story). So that you have limited space in your home, sticking with one protocol at the beginning, makes things easier and less frustrating, if you just want to get your first things up and running.

Easy done.

Using Rule Machine, you can make this automation even better and more energy saving. Why turn on the lights at a specific time, when nobody is home? Let it only turn on, when you are at home, with your presence as a condition. Or let the lights slowly turn on over time X till they reached full brightness. Or let them turn on, when you arrive, or, or, or. The possibilities are only limited by your imagination. But this is something you will get your head around, when you're more trained with HE.

There are several ways, all easy achieved with Rule Machine and/or Lighting App, Zone Motion Controllers etc. (You can install all of this apps on the App page, clicking on "Add built in Apps"). For the stair case the rule is pretty easy:

IF motion is detected -> Turn on lights -> Turn off lights (Delay 5 Minutes).

For the garage, you got two options:

  1. If you only care that the lights get turned on, then the rule is:
    IF motion is detected -> Turn on lights

  2. If you also want the lights to turn off, when no motion is detected, the rule is
    IF motion is detected -> Turn on lights, ELSE Turn off lights.

For the second option, I would use more than one motion detector, which I would group using the Zone Motion Controllers. This is allowing you to combine multiple motion sensors to act as one “zone” for triggering actions in Rule Machine and other apps. With this, you can make sure, that if one motion detector doesn't "see"you, but you are close enough to another one, the lights don't just turn off. But if you leave the room, the lights still turn off automatically. As motion sensor I can recommend the ones from Sonoff, which are extremely cheap and natively supported by HE.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/293724441517?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=707-53477-19255-0&campid=5338364437&customid=293724441517_3187&toolid=11000&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1lz_pfu6ISGGRE8j7EtedOg73

You don't need to and even if you do, they will work even if other technologies emerge. :wink:

Even if, a smart home is there you serve your specific needs, which means, you can mix up dozens of systems, each with its specific purpose, suited for your needs. You don't need to use only one system. I, as a matter of fact, use Zigbee and WiFi and will use Z-Wave, Thread, Matter etc. if required. And the best part is, that I can do so, because I use Hubitat. That is the whole point, besides better ways of automation, that your different devices can use every protocol and are still able to communicate with each other because of the HE. As an example, I use a Xiaomi Button (Zigbee) to control my Smart Curtain, made with a Shelly 2.5 (Wifi), which works flawless.

I totally get you. As written before, I don't have tones of money to spend on out-of-the-box solutions. That is why I love HE, because you don't have to. If you want a cheap solution, you can use them. Easy and cheap smart switches? No problem. Get your self some Shellys and install them into your existing switches. If you are only interested in turning lights on and off the Shelly 1 costs 10 Bugs and works absolutely reliable. If you want to be able to dim your lights, no problem either. Shelly Dimmer. Costs about 25 bugs, and you can use what ever bulb you want. You want to integrate your dumb devices and don't want to spend tones of money on smart plugs? Get yourself a Broadlink and integrate your RF- and IR-devices. Or you can use a Shelly UNI to make devices smart, which can't be controlled by simply turning electricity on and off, like for example a coffee machine. I got a coffee machine with a grinder and a button to turn it on and off. If I would use a smart plug with this machine, nothing would happen. Instead I'm installing the Shelly UNI in the machine, so that I can control it via WiFi and still have the possibility to use the button, if I want to (one big advantage of Shelly devices in general, that the old hardware always stays functional).

So as you can see, the possibilities are endless, they just need a little bit of research at the beginning. And if you don't know how to set up things, you can always ask or just check out the forum, which is also a very good source of inspiration for new automations. :slight_smile:

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At the risk of forum bombardment, every month there's something posted in this forum that comforts my decision to try to stick with ZigBee. I have turned HE's Z-Wave radio OFF. That said, I looked for a hub that could do them all...just in case. Not that ZigBee is perfect...but those infamous Z-Wave mesh complications I read about in here is a party I can watch from the sidelines. Might that story change, sure.

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HomeAutomationAsASystem

I'm more or less the opposite. I only have one Zigbee radio enabled :smiley:

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https://community.hubitat.com/t/serious-question-if-you-were-to-die-tomorrow-how-long-would-your-ha-implementation-last-before/

I'm quickly searching if you replied to this thread. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Seriously, nice setup.

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My suggestions for starting out:

  • We have a mix of both zwave and zigbee and I believe they both have their usefulness at the same time. Depending on your house layout, you may find that Zwave (900 MHz) has better range/coverage than Zigbee (2.4 GHz) does.
  • I wouldn't go installing hardwired outlets of either type early on. Use plugins as they are cheaper (usually 1/2 to 1/3 the cost) and you'll find that you want to move things around early on and try different approaches. Cosmetically they aren't as acceptable in certain areas (like hallways) but I find that you can hide them behind furniture or TVs and add to your mesh without anywhere near the cost/hassle of hardwired outlets. Hardwired outlets to me are a 2.0 type install or when you know you need coverage in that area over the long term.
  • We chose to use zwave for switches (inovelli dimmers/switches, zooz switches, leviton fan controls) and a mix of zwave/zigbee for sensors. We also use zwave plugin outlets for "semi-permanent usage", like light fixtures that don't move or something that stays automated. Zigbee plugins are used where we need to extend the mesh for zigbee sensors OR for temporary usage like holiday lights. Zigbee mesh is (seems to be anyway) more dynamic and flexible vs zwave's black magic routing.
  • We don't use motion triggered lighting. Lights are physical switches or via Alexa. And of course time of day or garage door sensor, etc.
  • We have a few WiFi outlets (was Wemo, but now all Meross) but those are only used for holiday lights. For "real" lighting I found they just have too many internet dependencies.
  • Try and automate a few simple things first, maybe in used areas but not over used. Asking your partner to suddenly change to a new light switch muscle memory in the main bedroom or bathroom is very difficult to get used to. Automating bedside table lamps with voice control is a much easier transition. Voice control of the ceiling fan was a big hit (alexa -> smartthings -> zwave fan controller).
  • You can buy some used stuff on eBay to get going or have extra modules for experimentation but pay attention to models and do a little research first. Only Zwave Plus for instance.
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Can I ask why not? That seems to be a first-choice use case for many people, myself included

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CSteele, good lord , I love your setup !!

Question for my own knowledge... you appear to be using HubConnect instead of HubMesh.. why ?

I too use HubConnect but mainly to drive devices on my ST hub. Was told that HE to HE hubs should use HubMesh....

am interested in your perspective..

A side note. Hub mesh only works on the same subnet. So if you have multiple subnets going on, you need to use Hub Connect

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ok fantastic bit of info.. thank you !!

You'll find lots of posts on the forum that list the lessons learnt that each of us has experienced when creating their smart home. I totally agree with @csteele about starting small and simple and then expand as your feel more confident but IMHO with one word of caution: I made the mistake of buying some devices because they were discounted at the time and so ended up with a myriad of devices from different manufactures.

This isn't always an issue but keeping track can be harder down the line. You may want to look at my post here which explains my approach to device's per usage and documentation approach (Sorry if some people consider that I swore then!) :joy:.

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