Hubigraphs Alternative

It's a steep learning curve but a pretty good all-in-one solution if you already use Node-RED. I use a mySQL database to store all events, logs, temperature and lux level information. Since all my automation logic is in Node-RED so it works well for me.

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You know, we just aren't approached by developers wanting us to incorporate what they've done into the hub -- just the opposite. For the most part my impression is that developers like their independence and supporting their work. In the case of Hubigraphs, it was made abundantly clear that the developer didn't like the "limitations" of the platform with respect to what he wanted to accomplish. Never mind the fact that (a) the platform was never intended to support what he wanted to do, or (b) there would be no viable market for a platform that was so intended (imo).

We will keep pushing the platform forward as best we can based on how we see customer needs, and based a lot on feedback we get from users here. There is no hidden agenda, or any agenda at all per se, with respect to developers and the things they come up with. It is possible to develop a wide range of apps and drivers using the platform, given that the entire set of built-in apps and drivers have been developed on it. There are certainly things that the hub is not good for, not intended for, but with Maker API there are ways to do just about anything you might want to do.

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Speaking from experience; solutions are often coded very differently X-iterations down the road, and intentional or not, early addresses to a problem often look like prototypes in hindsight.

Prototyping for look, feel, function, and customer acceptance is a valid part of the development process. If all some of these folks have done is achieve a Proof of Concept & Acceptance then yes, that DOES speed up the path to the destination; re-writing the code or not...conceptualizing takes time and adds value.

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Fair point. I agree it can help a lot in scoping. I don't think it helps much in coding and productizing though. Just my opinion, which is still more or less meaningless in terms of this discussion.

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Does anyone know what % of Hubitat users are active online community members?

Or what % of hubs have installed even very popular community apps like HPM or Hubigraphs?

I think it’s possible you’re conflating the needs and priorities of power users that are vocal in the online community with that of all hub users generally.

Edit: and just to be clear, I’m saying that as a very happy user of both HPM and Hubigraphs :slight_smile:.

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We don't actually know these numbers -- they are sort of slippery.

But, it's clearly the case that a very small number of users account for the vast majority of posts in the community. This is always the way it works. And, that vocal subset is dominated by 'power users'. I'd be surprised if Hubigraphs has a large installed base, i.e., more than a few percent of hubs in use.

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Or what % of new users that look at those two app examples in particular, and recognize how useful their features are, .... but say to themselves:

'there's no way in hell I'm going to start relying on something that scale that is not supported by the company because who knows when a) the sole developer supporting it decides to exit stage right, or b) the company takes some evolution track that leaves the developer in a quagmire to keep up'.

I can't be the only one that looked at exactly BOTH of those applications and thought they were hefty contributions and potentially unsustainable. Basically... WAY DEEP into what ought to be built-in and supported by Hubitat. Certainly HPM at the least.

I would personally love it if the functions of both of those apps were core functions of the hub, created and maintained by staff.

But I have no idea if doing that would make even the slightest bit of sense from the staff’s perspective.

What I was getting at it is, what if there are many, many hub users that don’t even participate in this community and don’t have a need for community-developed code?

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Basically what @JasonJoel already said :wink:.

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I don't use hubigraphs (or dashboards at all, really), but I do use HPM.

I donated to dman for HPM, as I think the best way to get volunteers to continue to support things is to give them an incentive. But I would bet I'm in a minority that will put their money where their mouth is - so many people want everything to be free.

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For devs that accept donations, I also make a habit of donating when I use freeware.

It would be cool if there was user-controlled flair for community handles so that a dev could award someone visible recognition as a donor.

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Yeah, but...for... the fact that there is a large and EXPERIENCED resource in this forum. It contributes in a way that you could have only wished for in the old days ("engaged, quick to respond, and free").

Furthermore, if the principles want to garner new business on the low end of the totem pole then it's the new users coming in that go, "huh, what's this...and why isn't it just apart of the core system like I'm use to at....gulp, ...Apple :crazy_face: " Not me personally, but you get my point. LOL

OK, let me edit that line: "...like Apple prides themselves on, but I don't want Apple prices...

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Then they can go buy apple?

I think Bruce's point earlier was that the hub will never be everything to everyone. They know the market they are going after and trying to attract, so prioritize their work accordingly.

Over time the product will likely get more and more features, but even then it will still never be a 1 stop shop for everything.

Where to draw the line is something only Hubitat can decide based on their business model and goals.

I certainly wouldn't complain if the hub could do EVERYTHING I need, and at the same price point, with no subscriptions. But I'm not holding my breathe. :wink: In the meantime external solutions and community apps/drivers will have to do.

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You might even be totally correct generally (I don’t work in IT and don’t run my own business, so I have minimal relevant experience myself); but you can’t strategize on behalf of a specific company when you’re not an insider and don't have all the details that should go into such strategizing.

We’re all customers, we should advocate for what we personally want in a product.

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Have you setup any apple devices recently :wink:?

Granted, I have never liked MacOS, I use windows for desktop computing, and I’ve even figured out how to use Linux (at the level of perhaps a 5th grader) for some HA and other needs.

But their mobile device and smart speaker ecosystem is so ridiculously easy to use, I will continue paying them whatever they want for the foreseeable future. And presumably so will a lot of other people, since they’re the world’s most valuable company.

And yes that is the reality, your time and their reliability, for your money. At some point that equation makes sense for more and more consumers.

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As someone who has written a lot of apps/drivers I agree. Most of what I've written I wrote because I found it useful for myself. It was designed for my specific needs and if others find value in it, I'm happy to have them use it, but it was designed with me in mind. If you guys incorporate it into the hub I'm just one of thousands, you're not building it for me, you're building it for the average. I mean everything has a price, offer me enough $$$ and my opinion changes. But that said, even the most complicated app I've written for HE (HPM) is only 4000 lines of code. I mean who is going to pay even a 5-figure sum for that when you could probably build it yourself for far less? It's different when I've built applications that I know someone else would take years to recreate. But HPM, maybe 80 hours of work to recreate? Why would HE pay me? It's probably cheaper, and easier (you wouldn't have to do it the clunky way I did of HTTP calls since you have more system level access) to just build it yourself if you so chose.

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Dominick, we are so grateful that you did write HPM. Thanks so much.

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Amen to that and for the excellent Withings sleep pad integration that has transformed my bedtime routine and that I appreciate every night and morning!

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After a long time just reading posts i had to comment on this.

Adoptation by a power user or not will always be small, because it has an inherent requirement: That users como to the Forum, search, follow complicated instructions etc.
And I come back to what I said at the beginning of my journey with hubitat, users need a visual place where they can browse and do one click installs, less than that will not have a lot of buy-in and it is on my opinion one of the reasons for sales not to ramp up further (not questioning your sales figures, just saying they could be better).

Currently we have a good starting point that its hubitat package manager but is missing the visual aspect and simplicity of install.

UX needs to come to the forefront and this requires a lot of visual changes to create a much more appealing and sexy product.

Like most things in life its the visual the first impression and what dictates often if you buy in or not.

Just my 2 cents

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Download the Hubitat app