Question for those of you with multiple hubs and/or multiple z-wave ecosystems.
Does it matter if two hubs running separate z-wave networks are close together? Can that have an affect on z-wave performance? Can it affect inclusion? Dose the use of aftermarket antennas matter during inclusion?
I have always had my hubs (primary radio hub and backup for LAN devices) next to each other.
Recently, I discovered I'm one of those who can't get my primary hub to add long range z-wave devices without a radio reset and re-inclusion of all my stuff. It was upgraded from a C5 to a C7 then the C8. Too much work to remove and re-include everything, so I looked for an easier option to get some LR devices working.
I decided to use my backup hub (a C8) also, to add the LR devices and then share them with the primary...
But even after a clean z-wave radio reset on the backup, I'm still having issues with adding LR devices... Getting the "Z-Wave device id: 0 failed S2 bootstrapping - Unknown status code - the device needs to be excluded then included again to use securely." error....
This hub never had any z-wave device on it and for a long time had the radios disabled... I enabled the radios and even did multiple radio resets with the diagnostic tool in between tries...
It won't add LR devices and seems to just time out with the error above... Both hubs are sitting right next to each other and I have after market antennas (brought over from the C7 antenna mod) on them. Could it be interference from the main hub with my main z-wave network on it?
Could the choice of antennas have an affect on how LR pairs? I've been trying to pair the devices right next to the hub...
In theory it could have a negative effect, though in practice Z-Wave radio interference is rare. You could easily test your hypothesis by unplugging one of the hubs to see if that makes a difference.
No devices from different manufacturers, or one specific model/manufacturer?
This error can have many root causes including outdated device firmware or even interference. Troubleshooting the problem is not straight forward. Using a process of elimination might be the best way to narrow it down. Try other device, update the device firmware, ensure there is no interference, etc.
I can’t add any LR devices. They are all Zooz but several different types and all with up to date firmware.
They will add in mesh mode, but not in LR. Saw this on my main hub but now on the backup also…
I know in troubleshooting this issue with my main hub, it was decided this was a SilLabs issue and no real answer other than to remove all z-wave devices, reset the radio and add everything back…
When I found this on the back up, the question of hub placement and the antennas popped into my head as there seems to be no other reason I’m getting this… BTW, I was able to add one of the devices, once… then couldn’t add a second so I reset the devices and the radio and now not getting anything to join LR.
I did the antenna mod on all my C7’s. With the l-com antennas recommended at the time. That’s significantly helped my mesh… So when I replaced the C7’s, I used the same antennas…
I guess I’ll have to play with the idea radio interference might be the issue…
I have about 0 faith in Z-wave on HE right now and I am about ready to roll back to 2.3.8 if my mesh craps out one more time. It has died at least 3 times today and I rolled back to 2.3.9.168, next stop is 2.3.8.
As for LR, I just gave up on that until the new z-wave stack is implemented. Holding out for that to reset my radio and rebuild which it needs anyway. Not worth messing with it right now.
I saw your post this morning and was wondering if the recent updates had something to do with it. I added the first device about a week ago… had time again last night and couldn’t get anything else to add… did the resets and nothing after that…
Saw your post this morning and wondered.
But this has been going on a few months now… Not seeing that SilLabs solution, I figured a clean backup hub with nothing on it would be easier…
Outside of the recent firmware updates, which should not have had anything to do with z-wave, the only thing I can think of now is it’s an issue with my hubs being too close together or it’s an issue with the antennas…
I’m going to try the stock antennas, and maybe move the hubs or what Bobby said, shut one down first… But I also ordered the @danabw super duper extra large antenna and gonna try that as well…
Any radio experts thinking that might be the issue?
Yes that was me. I also used my c7 L-com antennas on my c8 pro and I couldn’t get Zwave devices to pair but all existing devices from the migration worked great. The c8 doesn’t like that 5db antenna, long one that I see in your picture which is also what I had. Stock antenna works just fine but I needed an antenna with a hinge so I could mount the hub on a wall with both antennas pointing straight up so I bought the 3db one and it works too.
I saw that thread and your post is one of the reasons I ordered a couple of different antennas to try. I'll try the stock ones also...
Although maybe the one difference is I can add z-wave devices to both hubs using mesh mode, just not long range... Maybe the LR pairing process involves something more complex, or maybe I've been able to pair mesh devices as I paired them in place away from the hub...
Antennas and their placement appear to have a very real affect on how the hub adds devices...
I did some reading and decided to try the antennas @danabw uses. His post from another thread is below...
In any event, I was able to pair two LR devices to my backup (clean) hub! As a reminder, I was using antennas from my C7's from back when we did the antenna mods on them... I was using the l-com 5db...
Anyway, I bought four of them and hooked them up to both hubs. Still can't add LR devices on my main hub as that probably needs a z-wave reset, but on the backup hub, it worked like a charm... I'm going to play a little more, but I also noticed improved connectivity with my main hub and mesh devices...
Justin putting it out there to the world, if you are having issues, might consider some antenna changes... BTW, the 5db antennas seemed to work great for my mesh, but just wouldn't include LR stuff... These new ones seem to work great for my zigbee devices also... Only about 12 hours in, so I hope this will hold...
Glad it appears to be helping...hopefully not a fluke and it continues to work for you.
I've had zero Z-Wave issues since I put that antenna on my C8 for Z-Wave (and then moved it to my C8-Pro when I upgraded). I'm in a single-story ranch and the antenna's spread that works in my home may not work as well in other multi-story houses.
Biggest improvement for me was iBlinds motors in my blinds metal housings now work reliably, no more occassional "oops" when one wouldn't open or close. I have two LR devices paired, but stopped adding ZW-LR devices at that point when others started reporting ZW-LR issues, just to be safe.
I'm not using the antenna w/Zigbee as I find best results w/Zigbee devices connecting through repeaters to the hub, so I'm using the small stock antenna on power level 8.
I was about to reset my radio too and then switching the antennas solved my problem. Still don’t understand why the 5db antenna doesn’t work on the C8 but oh well.
Glad you got the one hub working hopefully the others will too with the new antennas.
I'll try the stock ones also...
