Hub communication?

Hi everyone. I have a question. When you run multiple hubs (c-5 & c-7) how do the hubs communicate, via Zigbee or via WiFi? I hope they communicate via wifi between hubs.

I tried two different setups.

One i tried to place extra Zigbee plugs to span the area beside my house and then to the powerhouse (insulated metal building).

At first, I added one plug inside the powerhouse but it could not get a signal from inside the house. Then I added another plug under the building floor to get signal inside the powerhouse. The problem was the devices inside the powerhouse kept dropping off the Zigbee network even though I had then placed as such:

1 plug placed just inside of house on outside wall. Then another plug just outside the same wall. Then about 30ft away is the one under the powerhouse floor, and then the other two plugs inside the powerhouse. (I was under the assumption that every mains powered Zigbee device are repeaters) I also has a temp/humidity sensor and a USB switch/repeater.

So, 3 plugs (one under and two inside) a USB switch plug/repeater. That makes technically 4 repeaters in powerhouse, and another one thirty feet away outside house. Still, I had problems communicating with the devices inside the powerhouse.

Soooo, I picked up another hub(before asking this very pertinent question) a c-5 hub for 30 bucks, that I now have put into my powerhouse (solar inverters, very large lifepo4 battery, and 2 Gensets, one ac and another dc), I'm still trying to figure out the best setup for the Genset. I only have a few items on it now.

I have a third Reality temp/humidity sensor, a sonoff zbmicro USB switch/repeater, and 3 third Reality power plugs. (Plan for more stuff later like Genset control, emergency shut down controls, etc.)

This setup allows me to control the air and heat with the temp gauge. One power plug runs the window ac, another is for floor heat, and then a third plug for a spare/radio at the momement. The USB plug charges my security camera inside the powerhouse but only when the sun is out.

Now, here is my reasoning for this action. The powerhouse (c-5 hub) will run the air con, the heated floor, light, alarm, etc. This hub would have all the devices shared with my c-7 hub that runs the devices in my house for monitoring. I did not share the devices on my c-7 hub.

If I am correct, the apps on the c-5 hub will work out there and if anything in the house messes up or locks up the c-7 hub, it will not interfere with the system out there in the powerhouse (since all powerhouse apps are on the c-5 hub). Have I missed anything? Not sure but ready for questions.

I know, this was a long winded post. Sorry about that. I hope this configuration will work out better than the last. I would hate to have to buy a plc just for powerhouse control.

Paul

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I hope that is true because yes, I do have a hard line underground. Two tubes, one for data lines, and the second one for ac voltage from the powerhouse to the house. It will be nice to finally have control out there.

Oh @Slate

Why erase? I am a big boy and I can take constructive criticism, even flat out attacks. :melting_face: It just rolls off now a days. Lol

If you use HubMesh (or HubConnect), they communicate via TCP/IP. Otherwise, they don’t communicate with each other.

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TCP/IP and mDNS via your LAN when using HubMesh, WiFi or ethernet it does not matter. It is not a cloud connection, they communicate locally on the same LAN.

Yes sounds correct and it is a good strategy for your setup. You can share the devices from the C5 to the C7 so that you can create unified dashboards or have apps/rules that work with devices from both hubs. That would live on the C7. If you create apps on the C5 that only work with C5 devices it will run independent of the C7. If one or the other goes down (or the LAN goes down) then obviously the Hub Mesh sync would stop working but any apps would keep working assuming the hub is operational.

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Hopefully the hubs aren't controlling anything mission critical.

Seeing that you are using a C5 and C7, the most likely way these will communicate is via the ethernet port, using the protocols listed by the others above.

The reason I say that, the C5 and C7 don't have built-in Wifi radios, they can only communicate to the outside world via ethernet (out of the box).

You can in theory add a Wifi dongle and have them talk to each other (via your Wifi router), but I really doubt you or most people have done so.

The C8 series do have a Wifi radio, so that is a viable option for some users that would have two C8, but even then, it goes through your Wifi network router, it isn't direct hub-to-hub.

@aaiyar YES! That is it exactly. I am finally getting the flow. Lol.

@jtp10181 @velvetfoot

Oh, and yes, the C-5 in the Power House technically is running what I consider mission critical apps for heating and cooling, the floor heat (not so much, mainly for me when out there) and air conditioning in the powerhouse. I am using a Third Reality Temp/humid Zigbee display and a couple of third Reality metering power plugs for the heat and air. Another plug for a spare for now. I have a ATS switch that will start my 220v Genset if the power company stops supplying us. That one is automatic so to speak (starts Genset when 220v is gone but the system runs off the batteries and the Genset will keep them running, unless the load is to large.

With a larger load, then I have another Genset, but this one is a bit different. This Genset was designed by the military and is a 150-300a DC 4 cyl gasoline generator. The control system I made looks for 220v first, then when the large main lithium battery voltage gets down to 22vdc then Both Gensets would run to top off the battery.

My 4 2500w inverters (paired 2x2) give me split phase 220v @ 50a into the house. All 110v circuits run off solar, and my mini split in my master bedroom runs off it even though it is 220v. My inverters handles it fine. (9000btu)

@neonturbo
Most definitely, hard line out to powerhouse. All of my mesh routers have dc power supplies so they stay on no matter what. Routers, hubitat, ooma, air sense monitors, etc are all dc powered.

Both Gensets have been converted to propane so they start easy.

I also have a mmwave presence sensor and dry contact for led lighting and a door sensor to notify me of the door being opened

I also have a few contactors, one 4p 200a, and a 4p 50a and a 4p Zigbee dry contact for power switches on inverters.

The 50a 4p contactor disconnects all solar panels from the inverters, and is needed because when powering down, solar has to be removed first (or at the same time which I have tested). I have that part hard wiresd through a e-stop switch.

The 200a 4p contactor disconnects all the inverters from the batteries and is controlled with a Zigbee dry contacts.

The 10a 4p Zigbee dry contact does the turning on off power switches.

Powering up is different. The batteries have to be connected first, then the solar, then the power switches on the inverters. For the power switches I used a Zigbee 4p dry contact for them

Sooooo, one E-Stop to kill it all quick!

Actually, one hardwired e-stop and there will be a app so I can shut down remotely and I will have a couple of the Zigbee buttons placed around the house so if I get notified, I can shut the system down quickly.

I guess the point is when you generate power, you have to be able to control it too!

Thank you everyone for your answers. Thankfully, it seems to be working this way now. I just am glad the hubs communicate between multiple via my mesh setup. I have internet access all over my 7 acres. I have started to install a couple of Zigbee repeaters beside the mesh routers. Currently on T-Mobile home internet but I will be going fiber here soon. Yea!!!

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Nice setup!

I wish I had solar possibilities where I live, but I'm surrounded by trees. The winters are also pretty dark and cloudy.

I have a couple of Bluetti AC180s and some panels, so I do have the "bug" to some extent.

In the past I've thought about remotely stopping/starting my propane-fueled Generac 22kW standby generator, incorporating Hubitat, but put it on hold. Remote/automatic load shedding before stopping/starting the generator was the main bugaboo, as I recall.

I've hacked a way to turn off the generator manually by hardwiring a cable to spoof a generator sensor. Going out in the middle of a storm to turn off the generator, at night or to save propane, is what Generac wants you to do. I flip the main house breaker before starting/stopping.

I do have an Ecolink contact sensor wired to a supplied dry contact in the Generac transfer switch, that lets me know when I've lost/re-gained grid power, via lights. I can't hear the generator when it's running, especially at night with the windows closed, so these lights glaring in my face should do the trick, lol. It also sends Pushover notifications, if internet service is still up (it usually isn't during a power outage), as well as a voice notification via an Ecolink chime siren (Z-wave).

The standby generator also has the Generac WiFi product, MobileLink.

The chime siren has a built in battery backup, so it also notifies me on a change of power source, via Pushover and built in voice.

I try to run the fridge and hopefully the wood stove insert fan on the Bluettis, especially overnight when I don't want to run a generator. A dedicated Bluetti AC180 will run the fridge overnight. I don't know about the wood stove, but hopefully long enough until it cools off.

I also use a Honda 2000 watt inverter tied into the 240v power inlet that I had before the standby. I also have 2 larger portable gasoline generators: a 7.55kw Generac and a 3kw Harbor Freight inverter.

I should use the HF 3kW more, and I could microwave, although I think if it was plugged direct to the Honda, it would run it. A devoted AC180 will also run it...mostly, lol. The HF would have more ooomph, but it's harder to move around, where I want to move it anyway.

Anyway, I like your setup. Sounds like you have more load than I do...that big generator is ....big.

Every power outage brings more things to light, so to speak, doesn't it?

Still wishing I could do solar. I don't think investing big time in batteries as a backup without permanent solar is prudent, but I guess it depends on the situation. They are quiet. Load shifting to save money, maybe.

Sorry for the rambling.
Stay connected!

Np with the rambling. The best questions and scenarios present themselves when laying things out in writing. Lol. I have gotten many ideas from so many sources simply by having conversations with like minded individuals.

As for your setup, if you can't do solar on house, how about like I did it, in my yard. Much easier to work on too. I originally had stationary panel setup, but when I rewired for 220v, I made all the panels adjustable for the angle for different times during the year. It goes from 10Β° to 45Β°. Yep, I adjust at the 1st of every month and I now get a little over 35% increase without adding any extra solar panels. I have 24 300 watt 24vdc panels. Each 2400 watt output inverter gets 6 panels wired 2s3p so the mppt voltage is kept around 80vdc. I do have some spare panels to swap out for breakage or other projects not on the list yet. Lol

Each device has its own "self control" so to speak.
Example: the inverters are also solar controllers, and it also has a built in charger from mains voltage and they technically run themselves once configured.

That was fine, but I wanted to be able to control the timing of such things like when it could use mains charging (anytime after dark when the battery level has depleted half way so I still have half left if the mains does not return. Remember my 220v Genset will be running if mains voltage is gone.)

Then I realized that if I was using a lot of power while the 220v Genset was running, my battery level was still dropping. So, that led to the military Genset putting out dc only would recharge the battery much faster using less fuel. See, the difference is this, the 220vac out of the Genset then has to be dropped to charging voltage 24-27vdc which produces heat and that uses power. The 220v Genset actually powers the inverters and the inverters charge the battery packs.

My pack is a lifepo4 pack @ 24vdc @1834ah providing 44kwh of power. So, if my pack is down to 50%, the 220vac Genset starts. When the power returns, the 220v would be shut down. If the power does not return by the time the pack reaches 25%, the military Genset will fire up and recharge the pack in about 2-2.5 hours.

The inverters are capable of outputting 80a each for charging though I limit it to 50a each, so 200a when needed to charge from power company, and it only does this during the night( no sun).

So, generators at full output, will provide 500a total and hour. That is a lot of juice!

So, now with hubitat doing some of the lifting, by allowing me to turn off solar panels, power down the inverters and also remove battery from the inverters. Also the presence sensor and led lighting, the air and heat controlled by hubitat.

So far, that is my powerhouse. Lol.

Paul

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