How about a test for "Unchanged" as well as "Changed"?


I am writing this because my post has to be more than 20 characters.

I don’t quite follow. Are you referring to a rule trigger?

How would a rule evaluate that something has not changed? Unchanged since when or what other reference point?

Or did you mean something else?


Unchanged is not an event.


rule trigger

Right, then my question still stands. Because unchanged is not an event, as @aaiyar put it.

A rule needs an event to trigger.


So changed can be an event and unchanged can't?

I guess that makes sense, thinking about it.

I suppose you could have "unchanged" over a period of time. But then you have to add that period of time, increasing the complexity of the trigger.


Yes, exactly. The event is the change from one state to another.


You could do it in 2 RM rules today... Not as easy as clicking an "unchanged" comparitor, but it can be done...

Rule 1 - trigger off of the sensor value you want to monitor for "unchanged". Setup actions to set a variable if it doesn't change in X time:

Rule 2 - Trigger off of the variable:

May be other (easier) ways to do it, but that it my thought off the top of my head.

I do a ton of unchanged timers for communications watchdogs, frozen/stuck sensor value, etc, in node-red. It is much easier to do there though.


Thanks. That gives me something to think about, using Boolean and use of the delay and cancel delay.

And to be fair, there may be an even easier way to do it in RM than using 2 rules. I admit I am not an RM guru.

Even easier way to do it in 1 rule, now that I think about it.... Simply start the actions with "cancel delayed actions", the do an action with a cancellable delay.

  • If the sensor never changed, it is never triggered, and the action happens.
  • Sensor changes, delay gets cancelled, and a new one made.

(told you I wasn't an RM guru... Or I would have thought of that in the 1st place. lol)


Correct. But "changed and stays that way for a period of time" can be a trigger. Meaning something changes and remains unchanged after that for a period time can be used as a triggering event, as alluded to earlier by @Pantheon.


Depending on what you're looking for, a "sticky trigger" could be another option besides those described above. This is the "And stays?" option that is available for most trigger types that represent a particular state change (you will not find it on things like "changed").

Of course, this discussion would be easier and more focused if you could provide a specific, practical example of what you're actually trying to do. :smiley:


Because of Z-Wave crashing on me after a cloud update the last two mornings, with no mention of zwaveCrash in location events, I'm trying to test if Z-Wave is still operational. I think periodically turning on and off a switch would be too intrusive. I'm thinking a z-wave device that reports periodically could be tested, and I could be notified, or more. I have an Aeotec home energy monitor that reports every 5 seconds, but if I tap into that with a rule like @jasonjoel suggested, maybe it'll put it over the edge as far as bandwidth.

In that case, a "Time since event" condition in your actions coupled with whatever trigger you want (periodic and rarer than every five seconds like you'd get with the device event trigger, I'd suggest...) would probably work.

Or you could use an app written for this purpose (well, not that purpose, but same idea), like this one I wrote or a couple other abandoned options: [RELEASE] Device Activity Check - Get notifications for "inactive" devices


It's not looking that great for this concept.

It is unclear from your screenshot and the lack of information provided what "this" is.


The Time Since Event concept.
Test is the name of the rule.
It's more than 3x Dashboard as far as memory use.

The most important piece of context missing here, as I noted when suggesting this option, is how (really how often) the rule is triggered.