Homekit, Thread, Matter Query (No Hubitat Hub involved)

I need to install a few motion sensors for someone who has no current smart home setup. As they're Apple users I thought Homekit may be easiest for them. I notice that Eve do two versions of their motion sensor - both look to be Homekit and Thread compatible, one of them supports Matter.

My (probably dumb) question is...Does the motion sensor need to be in wireless range of the HomePod/Apple TV (acting as the thread device) or just on the same WiFi network?

For Thread, they would need to be in range of a Thread router or border router (the HomePod or Apple TV can work as the latter if they have one of the models that support Thread). This is similar to how Zigbee devices need to be in range of your hub or a "repeater" (technically also called a router in Zigbee terms, though we seem to use both here interchangeably). So, Wi-Fi alone is not enough. Wi-Fi over Matter devices do exist, but they use Wi-Fi directly, not Thread, and as such do not need a Thread border router. (The job of a border router is basically to get Thread traffic, which is IPv6-based -- one of its biggest differences from Zigbee to which it is otherwise quite similar -- onto your regular LAN, whether that's wired or wireless. So ultimately there may be Wi-Fi involved, but not that directly.)

If the device is Matter over Thread, as the current Eve Motion model is, then that would ultimately get your sensor usable by a Matter controller on your network, such as Apple Home or a certain firmware version for a certain model of a certain hub running a certain version of something that is currently in testing. If it is HomeKit (only) over Thread, you'll only get the former -- which may be enough for their needs, it sounds like.


Thanks Robert. No 'matter' how much I read regarding thread and matter on this forum I find it confusing!

So if I'm using an end device (such as a motion detector or plug/outlet) that is using Thread but not in range of the Apple TV/HomePod mini directly; can it link back through another Thread device (it would be easier enough to dot some plugs in each room if these act as border routers/repeaters)?

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You need a device that can act as a Router node. I'm not aware of too many at this point, but the Eve Thread Plug can function as a router, and a Nanoleaf Thread bulb is another example of a device that can function as a Thread router to extend the range of a Thread-based network.

It's no doubt confusing, and might be a little easier to understand with this explanation from OpenThread.


@SmartHomePrimer - great article, thanks.


Ugg I'm begining to despise matter. Bought a Lorex fusion NVR cam system. Matter compatible. I attempted to hook it to Google home, 15 times, it never worked properly. Yesterday I chatted with Google home support for TWO FREAKIN Hours. Guess what, they couldn't get it to work either.
Gotta love new "standards"


I am assuming a tiny bit here, but the Matter spec as far as I know doesn't cover an NVR device category as of yet. So I wouldn't expect it to work with other Matter devices. Even if you consider it a TV or Roku or similar, there aren't many of these devices currently available. The sensors could possibly be Matter, but not likely at this point, the list of those is quite thin.

I would say that the NVR manufacturer is being a bit loose with the truth here. That NVR might be capable of Matter, but it probably isn't enabled or able to even do anything at this point as the spec doesn't appear to cover those categories of devices.

This is the most easy to understand article and complete listing of Matter devices I have seen. I may have missed something, but there aren't any NVR on that list...


Add to that list, the upcoming Switchbot S10 robot vac (will support Matter).

Lorex literature said I would be able to control the light as "bulb" and the built in siren on the camera from Google home. It's the Fusion system from Costco with 6 cameras.

I'll have to call Lorex to clarify


EDIT- Both Lorex and Google are clueless as to how to make this work. 4+ hours wasted. They call it the "bleeding edge" for a reason

Not sure if you're aware of this. It's concerning to some, but perhaps it's not a concern for your use.

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Well couple of things. I read Lorex was sold off by Dahua to a Taiwainese company, Skywatch, but supposedly that company is majorly controlled by a Chinese firm. And as far as human rights abuses, Costco sell Iphones. I would bet many of our goods, since American manufacturing has been decimated, likely involve slave/child labor. It's a very sad situation.

All my cameras are outside, and I only "flash my dongles", inside.

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Also, this "ban" on Chinese cameras is for government use, not private use. Was never intended to stop private use.