For about the 3rd time in the last year, most of my Zwave devices suddenly stopped working. I go into HE and the first thing I see is that the Backup Failed because of the Zwave Network. This seems to occur after I have used the Swap Devices function. Just adding new devices has not been a problem.
Just made a bunch of Device changes to change my 800 series devices from Mesh to LR. They seemed to be working fine, and then all of them failed a day or so later, with the Backup Failed.
I have restored from a previous cloud Backup, including the Zwave network, but now the Devices list of devices and the Zwave Details screens do not agree. There are more devices on the Devices screen than the ZWave Details screen. That is, all of the ZWave LR devices are missing from the ZWave Details screen. After the Backup, the Zwave Devices shows no Ghost Devices.
What am I supposed to do at this point????? I went into the Devices screen and deleted all of the LR devices that were showing up. Some of those same devices show up in the ZWave Details screen as non-LR devices. Thinking I should just Exclude these devices and try again. But I DO NOT want to end up with any Ghost devices.
All you needed to do was shut the hub down and unplug it for 30 seconds and everything would have come back up just fine. Not sure why you immediately resorted to restoring a backup.
I believe there is an issue with the LR nodes being backed up and restored, so, you will need to pair those devices again.
First before you do anything, you will need to go to each of the devices (in devices list) that was LR and is not missing from the z-wave details. Edit the DNI of each one and add _OLD to the end. This will make way for new devices to be paired.
Then you will need to exclude / reset each device, and if you still have them in SmartStart they will re-join automatically. Add "NEW" to the name of each device you can pick them out in swap apps.
Once they are all joined again you can use Swap Apps to swap from the old to the new.
Once swapped then you can delete the old device which has _OLD in the DNI, and then finally clean up any of the device names as needed.
Well, why would I perform a power-off? Nothing in the Backup Failed message suggested I do that.
I already went into the Devices list and delete all of the LR devices. Every LR devices was missing from the ZWave Details screen, but their old (non-LR ) device was still listed their.
So now, I have the old (non-LR) device listed in the ZWave Devices. I did an Exclude of the physical device and HE reported "unknown ZWave device removed". Then I went back into the ZWave Devices list and the old (non-LR) device was still listed. I performed a Force Remove, which did not remove the device and also left a Ghost device. ???????
This seems to be a real mess.
I could swear they added a message on the cloud backup page about powering down the hub for 30 seconds to restore the radio. Might not be in the "alert" that pops up but I am pretty sure its on the cloud backup page.
Ok, so you actually restored a backup from before you switched them to LR? Yeah that is going to be a royal mess. From what you said originally there were devices missing from the details screen and it sounded like you expected the LR devices to be on there.
DO NOT EXCLUDE any more devices, because if you have them scanned into Smart Start they are going to rejoin by themselves as soon as you exclude.
Maybe you should show some screenshots, because what I am understanding you to say does not seem to match reality.
@jtp10181 So I have multiple Cloud Backups and have just Restored the last full Cloud Backup (including ZWave Radio). I did expect at least some of the LR devices to appear on the ZWave Details screen because I know some of those devices were included at the time of the backup I restored. I have now compared, device by device, the Devices Listing and the ZWave Details listing. They are the same EXCEPT that there are 6 LR devices listed on the Devices listing that do not appear on the ZWave Details listing. Those 6 devices represent ALL of my LR devices. So it appears that Cloud Backup is not working properly with LR devices (?)
The SmartStart phone app and your SmartStart Manager show all LR devices as "not included, pending".
No idea what I should do now:
Is there a way to "force" the devices in SmartStart to reinclude?
Should I just delete all of these devices from SmartStart? And then Include them again using SmartStart?
Note: Neither the Cloud Backup page or the Backup Failed message have a message about shutting down the Hub on a failed Cloud Backup.
Correct, I already assumed and said that above based on a couple other recent reports of the same thing happening with people trying to migrate to a Pro hub.
So they are not including because the devices themselves have not been excluded or reset, the hub is waiting for them but the devices will not try until they get reset. BUT DO NOT start resetting them yet. You either need to delete the all the LR "device" entries from the hub devices list first or follow my directions from above:
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First before you do anything, you will need to go to each of the devices (in devices list) that was LR and is now missing from the z-wave details. Edit the DNI of each one and add _OLD to the end. This will make way for new devices to be paired.
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Then you will need to exclude / reset each device, and if you still have them in SmartStart they will re-join automatically. Add "NEW" to the name of each device so you can pick them out in swap apps.
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Once they are all joined again you can use Swap Apps to swap from the old to the new.
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Once swapped then you can delete the old device which has _OLD in the DNI (I forget if it will be the one with NEW in the name or not but go by the DNI), and then finally clean up any of the device names as needed.
It only shows AFTER there is a failure, while it is still in the failed state, once a new backup is done it clears the warnings. I will see if I can find the screenshot that was posted somewhere.
How should I Exclude/Reset them?
From the Devices screen do a "remove device"? or
From the ZWave Details screen do a "ZWave Exclude" and then put the physical device in Exclusion mode?
Make sure you fix the DNI of the old device entries as I suggested before you do this. You can either find the factory reset directions for each device, or you can exclude using the hub. You can actually exclude any device even if it is not currently paired / talking to the hub. You just put the hub into exclusion mode, then put the device into exclusion mode. The Hub should say "unknown device excluded", which then will reset the device and it should automatically pair again using your SmartStart settings.
OK.
Changed the DNI for devices to add "OLD".
Excluded all physical devices. Received "unknown device deleted" for each.
Devices still appear in the Devices list. Should I just "remove device" in the Devices screen?
All devices still appear in SmartStart as "not included, pending". They are not automatically pairing. Should I just delete them from SmartStart and then add them back using SmartStart?
You can, but if you have any rules/apps tied to them it will break it all, that is what the rest of the instructions are for, to preserve that.
Deleting and readding them will just put them back in the same state, wont hurt anything but probably wont help either. You could try rebooting or shutting down the hub and restarting it. Also may need to power cycle the devices (while hub is running).
You can watch the live logs, it will say something about SmartStart Join Started when it finds something and starts the process.
Deleted the devices from SmartStart. Added one back to test, and as you said, it remains in pending status. I was able to Include and then Exclude the device in Mesh mode. But does nothing in SmartStart.
Here is the Log entry:
2024-06-13 03:46:10.220 PM[warn] Z-Wave device id: 0 failed S2 bootstrapping - Unknown status code - the device needs to be excluded then included again to use securely.
[sys:1] 2024-06-13 03:46:05.522 PM[info] Z-Wave SmartStart Join Started
Any other ideas?
Is this something that Hubitat Support can help with?
HELP!!!!
I have used a Cloud Restore to get back to a working Hub. Not working!
After a Cloud Restore, My Devices screen and ZWave Details screen do not agree, apparently because the Hubitat Cloud Backup service is not properly backing up the ZWave radio settings for Long Range (LR) devices.
The bootstrapping error is a documented issue and unfortunately the only known fix right now is a full radio reset: S2 bootstrapping - Unknown status code - #25 by jtp10181
You will not be able to include any LR nodes unless you do a radio reset, which means going through that whole DNI exercise with every device and pairing all devices again.
There could possibly be a fix in the future, but nothing as of right now.
Possibly if you cloud restore back to before you switched your devices to LR, it might fix it, but you would then have another mess to clean up there as well.
Are you Fu$&ing kidding me?????
Why isn’t the problem with LR cloud backups noted on the Release page????
Why isn’t this problem noted on the Release notes with the BOLDED recommendation NOT to use Long Range???????
And i would love to Backup prior to the introduction of Zwave LR, but habitat cloud backup is limited to Only 5 backups!!!!
Why the hell was LR released when you Hubitat knew about the problems??????
Apparently the the LR backup/restore not working is only isolated cases and otherwise it has been tested and works. Same with the bootstrapping error, limited cases. They are both being worked on with the z-wave chip vendor.
There is an isolated change you will have to rebuild your entire zwave network?????????????? That is BS!!!! That should be made clear in the release notes!!!!!!
At this point i don’t believe that doing the dni change will fix the problem, or leave my network in a stable condition. That leaves a complete hub reset!!!!!!!!!!!
Well you can just add those device back as mesh and not use LR in the meantime and hope for a fix. Would be the same end outcome as if they never released LR at all.
That still doesn’t work. After doing the dni rename and deleting the devices i now have 3 Orphaned devices in Zwave Details.
So as best i can tell, my zwave network is permanent screwed up.
YES. LR should not have been released!!
Why hasn’t hubitat made us aware of these known problems?????
Those orphaned devices in z-wave details I would guess are due to restoring a cloud backup from when you were mid-stream of switching devices to LR. If the backup still had those devices as mesh nodes, but the hub devices list had them as LR nodes (due to only restoring z-wave) it would not match up and they would show no device linked in Z-Wave details.
It is still recoverable, those dead nodes can be removed (not always easy unfortunately) and you can pair whatever devices are missing back again as mesh nodes. Even if you cannot remove those dead nodes immediately, you can probably get everything else working in the meantime.
I know it sucks, not saying it doesn't. Just trying to lay out your options.
Because they've only just been discovered and even Silicon Labs didn't know. That is why Hubitat is working with them. Since they're LR devices, they won't affect your mesh if there are ghosts. Just keep on trying to remove them. They will eventually go.
