Scenes in Hubitat don't really have an on/off state. The scene activation device has switch functions, but those are not intended to reflect the state of the scene. For example, you can activate a scene by turning that scene activating switch on. Then you can change elements of the scene, but you wouldn't want that to turn the scene activating switch off --> doing so would turn off every element of the scene. On the other hand, if you changed an element of the scene after turning the scene switch on, you can turn it on again (even though already on) to activate the scene --> bring it back to its set scene condition.
Is there an example of how you would use a scene state indicating device? For Lutron, it's simply the state of an LED.
The inference to be drawn is that you'd need a different additional device --> a group status indicator device. It would be On if all members of the group are on, and Off if all members of the group are off. It's functions would be, if On and turned off, to turn off the group master; and if Off and turned on, to turn on the group master switch (thus turning on all devices to the setting of the master).
There isn't a scene device Off button. There is a scene device switch. So for your list:
Turn the switch off, all lights turn off
Turn the switch on, all lights return to scene set state (even if already on)
what is the purpose of doing nothing?
As in my post above about Group, the inference is that you want a scene indicating device, where On means that the scene is set in its defined state, and off means that it is not in its defined state. The displayed "state" of the current scene activating device is arbitrary and unimportant to the app. I could change the logic so that its state reflects what you are suggesting, but it's functions would remain the same: namely, On always means put scene into defined state, and Off always means turn entire scene off. Would that work for your case?
OK, to be more precise, the Scene Activator device has On, Off, and Push commands. The switch has On and Off states.
The current On command sets the scene per the app and sets the switch state to On. The current Off command turns all the devices off and sets the switch state to Off. The Push command sets the scene but doesn't do anything to the state of the switch.
I have no issue with the On command - it should always set the scene per the app definition.
My issue is that I think the Off command should be configurable.
I don't like the Hubitat scene Off command turning off all the devices - that's the reason for an Option 3 - do nothing to the lights. That would mimic the Lutron Single/Multi-room scene functionality - there is no off command for a Lutron scene.
I understand others might want to turn the lights off, so my Option 1 current functionality is for them. It's like a Lutron Toggle Control/Room Monitoring button.
I think an interesting choice for turning a scene off might be to return to previous levels, so that's the reason for Option 2. Think of ending a movie and telling Alexa to "turn movie lights off" that would then just put the lights in the configuration before turning the movie lights scene on.
And, as per my previous statements, I'd like the switch state to be On when the levels all match the scene definition (like the Lutron LED). And be Off otherwise.
yes, that's the alternative. But as stated before, someone will tell Alexa to turn the scene off. Resetting is better than turning off the lights to me.
I think a group status indicator device would work well! But just to make sure I understand correctly, the state the group indicator device reports to the world would be set by getting the current state of the devices in the group, not by the actual command switch that is part of the group indicator device.
Say the group indicator device command switch position is off, but the lights are all on, the group indicator device will report itself as on. A dashboard app would see the device as on so the next command the dashboard would send would be to toggle the switch to off. The group indicator device command switch is already off, but still it responds to the off command sending an off command to the actual group switch which will change the status of the grouped lights which will subsequently change the state the group indicator device reports. Wow, hope that makes sense.
If I've got it right, I think that would work perfectly. Would that same group indicator device be able to do that with level/color/color temp - it wouldn't always be completely accurate. It could report the color of the majority of the lights. If most lights are red it will say red. If they are all different it just doesn't change its reported state. And level could be the average level of the lights in group.
OK, you convinced me. Adding an option to ignore Off for the activator device. When used, those devices in the scene would have to be turned off independently of the scene.
Also, adding the activator switch as indicator device. It will only display On when all devices are set to the scene definition.
Also added transition time, for gradual dimming of lights that support it.
We were discussing this and came up with an issue we'd like your input on:
You activate a scene, the "indicator" goes on (like the Lutron LED). You change one of the devices in the scene, and the indicator goes off (also like Lutron LED). What should happen to the indicator if you reverse the change you made to the device, in effect, restoring the scene state?
I think that in the Lutron system the LED will come back on if I do this. Say my scene is 3 lights on, and I turn one off, scene button LED goes out. Then I turn that one back on -- scene button LED goes back on?
We were debating whether this should happen or not. The argument against doing this is strong: Suppose the Hubitat scene also involves pushing a button (e.g., a Lutron scene activating button). If I were to just turn on the 3 lights without pushing the button, I wouldn't really have activated the scene, so the indicator should not come on. This implies a subtle difference between how this indicator should work and how a Lutron scene button LED should work.
Bruce - I found another way to accomplish what I needed - I learned how to create additional light groups in Hue via their API. You can't do it through their app. So, while I think others would like this feature and hope it stays on your future implementation list, I personally don't need it anymore. I appreciate your help & time.
The feature of optionally ignoring off and making the activator switch track the scene set state has been implemented in the latest release: Hub Update 1.1.6
Sorry, I've been away for a few days. A few comments:
The ignore off definitely works, but there are UI issues. The off command still sets the switch state to off. Which then doesn't match the desired scene tracking.
The scene tracking sometimes works. I set up a group with 3 Lutron dimmers. Activating the scene works and the dashboard shows the scene switch as on. If I change 1 specific dimmer from the scene then the scene switch shows off. If I change either of the other 2 the scene still shows as on.
It would be nice to have scenes be up-gradeable between app updates. This update forces scene re-creation in order to take advantage of new features.
Re: Lutron buttons. There is definitely an issue that you have when a button in a different system sets light levels. It's already possible to create a loop by assigning a button push to that same button.
One way to break the loop would be to add a Lutron scene capture as part of the Lutron integration app? You could capture the settings from the Telnet output of a button push.
The Ignore Activate Switch Off works correctly in 1.1.6.114.
There is an issue on dashboards for scenes that ignore off. When the scene is displayed as a switch (which I think is how it should be displayed) pressing the button when on (which would be a normal off command) the button gets stuck in a "thinking" state for several minutes. Eventually it returns to an "on" state.
The scene tracking also still only accurately follows 1 dimmer in my multi-dimmer scenes.
The 1.1.6.116 update fixes the scene tracking for multiple dimmer scenes. There is still a "thinking" timeout on the dashboard when turning the switch off on an "ignore off" scene, but it's down to 5 seconds consistently. I wonder if there could be some sort of scene template that knows the ignore off setting. And look more like the button template (not a switch visual). Thanks
As in a previous reply on scenes - because you can. Somebody will. It's not a large issue and it now resolves itself in 5 seconds.
I think the issue now, in this case, and it's broader than scenes, is configurability of dashboard tiles. It would be useful to be able to change text and icons.
We are going to add a Dashboard template for Scene activator button. It will have a light that shows the Scene state. You'd use that for when off is disabled, and a switch for when off is enabled.
