Getting beyond frustrated. I think I am in over my head

You are not over your head. Setting up new Z-wave can be challenging, especially on the new radio. Running repair on an unhealthy mesh, even in the past, didn't make the mesh better, but on the new radio is even worse if you run repairs when mesh is very weak. The good part is that the new radio runs repairs on its own, so you don't have to.

One thing we are seeing often in support tickets are a mix of overly chatty power reporting devices, mixed with non-Plus devices and sprinkled with a good number of ghosts. I can see you have some ghosts. Mind sharing the make and model of your outlets pictured above and the number of non-Plus devices that you tried to include and weren't successful?

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Sure, Happy to share... if I can
Let's see.
I read somewhere that in the list of Zwave devices (above) that the device following it most likely caused the ghost. Using that.
My bathroom switch is a Zooz Light Switch
My Kitchen switch is a GE EZ Smart Dimmer
My Stereo Cabinet is a Zooz Power Switch
I have two Ghost items in a row and the device after that is my Bedroom Fan, it is a GE enbrighten Fan switch. Brand new. No issues installing, which makes me wonder if it really is what caused the two ghosts.

I know in order to remove the ghosts I must have 100 percent of the power off to the device. Is there anyway looking at the ghosts I can be sure what device caused it?

I have only had one device I never could get to pair. It was a GE ZW2008, one of the oldest I had and it had a three way setup. I finally gave up and replaced with a Zooz Version 4.

I have ordered a stick (be here late Thursday) to remove the ghosts.

I have also ordered 4 Aeotec Range Extenders.

A couple of people above talked about in our clusters.... I have no clue what that is. (Are you sure I am not in over my head???)

So I hopefully remove the ghosts... but then what do I do?
Thanks for your help.

See in that screen shot you posted of your zwave details page. On your ghost devices that column only says "in , out" Your regular devices has numbers in that column, those are your in and out cluster numbers. Your ghost devices are missing these numbers.

My hunch is that this device is what caused your ghosts, with it never including completely but multiple attempts at trying to get it to.

How many of those without in and out clusters do you have total, and how many devices that do have them?

I have 5 ghosts and 21 that have IN numbers.. but no OUT numbers... just says: in: 0x5E, 0x6C, 0x55, 0x9F, out: or in: 0x5E, 0x26, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x70, 0x5B, 0x9F, 0x6C, 0x7A, out:

Having no out: numbers is usually OK (I only have 3 zwave devices out of 70 that have anything in the out: section).

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You are on the right track! Replacing the old ZW2008 was a smart move. You probably don’t need the stick, and the 4 repeaters may be unnecessary.

It is critical to start on the right foot. Bring all repeaters (mains powered devices) first, then build the mesh outwards from the hub to the furthest place.

Once the foundation is in place, then bring the sensors. Don't skip stubborn devices along the way if they don't pair where you want them. Thinking that you can come back later to "fix" them, guarantees troubles in the future.

Take your time building the mesh methodically. Hopefully you do this once for the long run. If you rush, and don't build a strong foundation, you'll become frustrated in no time.

Did I mention, take your time? If you don't have time, just work slow. Get the repeaters on the same floor as the hub done in one weekend. Come back the next weekend and do another floor. Leave the sensors for another weekend.

As you add devices, screen the Logs (past Logs) to ensure that devices don't report events as frequently as a few milliseconds. That is not because the hub cannot handle, but all your devices share the Z-Wave bandwidth so the more events you generate the busier the radio becomes.

If you accidently create "ghosts", don't let them add up. Stay with the device and don't move on until the ghost is gone. If you do it as soon as it happens, chances are that excluding the device would clear the "ghost". Worst case scenario, you can follow this basic process and nothing else:

  1. Go to Z-Wave Details page
  2. Click "Refresh" button for the node you'd like to remove.
  3. After the page reloads, click "Remove"

Note that you may need to repeat the 3 steps above a few times. If that doesn't work, refresh the browser page manually (not using the refresh button) then try to remove it.

To identify a ghost, look at the Z-wave Details table. A "ghost" looks like this:

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Ok, I followed all you said.
Not sure where I should go from here?

  1. Remove ghosts... I will go try what you suggested after I type this.
  2. Now what? Would everything I have so far be good to continue?
  3. Go slow. Ok, whatever is number 2, I will go slow.
    Thanks
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Ok, I got 2 of the 5 removed.
I says PENDING on a third one, but it said Pending when I started.
I had to lookup how to do a manual refresh.
I counted, tried 15 times hitting the refresh button next to the device, and then a browser refresh. I never could get a Remove option for 2 of them, and then as I said a third says PENDING, but I tried multiple times trying to remove it.

Try rebooting (NOT RESET) the z-Wave radio - that should clear the PENDING.

The only way known to do this is: shut hub down cleanly to red light (settings, shutdown). Then power off hub at the wall (not at micro USB, which is fragile and can break the solder joints to the PC board). Power back up after 30 sec.

Mind sharing a screenshot of the Logs (past Logs) when you are trying to remove the node?

I cleared the log, then tried 3 times to refresh a node. Actually did this 3 times before I took the screen shot. I see no activity related to trying to remove a ghost... but wow, the Zooz power switches (Ginny Desk and Jac Desk) are sure slamming the hub. Or at least I think that is what I am seeing.

And that's what I meant by over reporting power/energy events. Those surely keep your radio busy. If you are not planning on using power level to automate your home, I would simply turn off the reporting. Or if you use power, you can increase the wattage to report at 30-50 watts or something that is more meaningful to your setup.

While you were typing that, I had unplugged those zooz... get back to that in a minute.
Look at the log now when I tried a remove...

Ok, yes, I like the power reading on the desks. What I use it for is to at night when the power drops below 10 watts to turn off the desk. I have 4 of these. I can turn the power reporting off for two, but the 2 desks ones, (and they seem to be slamming)... wait, thought. I have a rule setup that says when the power drops below 10 watts for 5 minutes, turn off. So is it the rule that is causing the constant checking? How do I get around that? Oh and still got 3 ghosts.

No, it is the power reporting device sending reports. You want to only enable the reports you need. You don't want Power Interval, Power Percentage, Power Power Value, Energy Interval, Current Interval, and Voltage Interval turned on all at the same time. Pick one, and set it appropriately.

Ok, so two pics attached. First shows defulat settings, then the second shows what I changed the devices I don't need a wattage report to. Does it look good to you?


Unplugging a Z-wave device without properly excluding it causes problems as well. Some devices may still attempt to route through those unplugged devices, so that could cause nodes that are further away from the hub to fail. As result, the radio will be "busy" trying to resolve those routing problems, all while you are trying to remove the ghosts.

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Ok, now I will just pull my hair out.
Ok, plugged back in... will try and change reporting parameters

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For sure leave them plugged in.

For now, I would set them all to off, be sure to "Save Preferences".

When you get the mesh stabilized, you can then turn on "Power Report Value Change" or whichever one you want. At most, you might use two of these, but more isn't better here. And if you aren't using power for automations, leave them turned off.

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...and hit "Configure" for good measure, to let the device know that you changed the preferences.

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