GE Dimmers not updating status

I have a handful of GE/Jasco Z-wave (not plus) dimmers that are not automatically updating status when I change on/off or level via the paddle switch. Some have sat for several hours without updating the hub with the physical change. I can hit the refresh button on the device page and it gets the correct switch and level values instantly. The GE dimmers all paired with "Generic Z-Wave Dimmer" driver. Is this a known issue? Any idea what's up with these?

Yep! See this thread for just about everything you could want to know on this issue: Physical Events Not Logging Consistently - #22 by JDogg016

To summarize: the instant-update feature was subject to a patent GE didn't want to pay to license, which explains the behavior you see. SmartThings (if you've previously used these switches on that platform and didn't notice the problem) worked around this issue by periodically/frequently refreshing the devices. Hubitat decided to leave it up to you, which you can do with (for example) Rule Machine at your desired frequency if you need this functionality.

BTW, the driver ("Generic Z-Wave Dimmer") you're using is indeed the intended one for these devices. The "smart"-branded version of this driver expects switches that update their status on their own, which GE's Z-Wave Plus models (and probably most switches now that I think the patent has expired) do.

Yes, we know a thing or 10 about that...

Basically, ST polled/refreshes every device, every 10 seconds, Overkill for those many devices that already supply status. Hubitat doesn't waste your ZWave mesh that way, but allows you to refresh via a periodic rule.

It's suggested that you refresh the devices that don't supply status, and only those that are used in Automation. You might also refresh at a low rate (minute, not seconds) for other devices wherethe status would be nice.. say for Dashboard. Finally, you may want to hone the refresh rule to only refresh in an area around a motion detector, for example. That way at 2am to 4am, you're not pumping out refresh on the mesh for zero benefit.

Ahhh ok, I did not realize that the perfect refresh was a SmartThings-specific thing. Makes perfect sense to leave it up to the user. Thanks!

I set up a rule to refresh just my 26 dimmers & fan controllers that don't seem to report status every 10 seconds. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence but several of my automations (turning on a light when a door opens, turning on a light by motion) stopped working at the same time. I went to the log page and there were tons of log entries streaming in. Paused the rule and the log entries kept on coming for a minute or two and finally stopped. Automations still didn't work....rebooted the hub and they came back. Is 10 second refresh period for 26 devices too much?

It works for ST and it's not a load on the hub itself. Might be a load on the mesh. ST had delays that we always blamed on the cloud, perhaps a portion was the refresh.

I doubt you want that much too. If there's a device status you're including in an automation, I'd refresh that at 10 seconds. (If switch is on... If dimmer is on... If Fan is on...) For those not tied to an automation, but who's status is important, I'd split into 3 groups of 20 seconds. Try to spread the load around the time domain.

Good call. I only have 4 devices that really need a quick refresh rate. Set those up with 10 seconds, the other 22 I set up in 3 groups as recommended, but did a minute each.

take a look at those 3 groups and see if you have a motion or door sensor that "predicts" the need for proper status in that area... refresh just those. In other words, you know that the physical switch can't be changed unless a person does it.. detect people in the area and do refreshes. If there are no people, the physical status isn't going to change. :slight_smile:

You can implement that by having Motion set the Boolean of a Rule like I pasted, and then reset the boolean (false) when motion ends.

[ you'll want to go into Restrictions and turn Enable/Disable with private Boolean? to On. ]

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Thanks. I have 3 idle motion sensors that are not being used for anything, I will move them into the rooms that need frequent refreshes and use them that way.

I had a switch that turned itself on and off last night, not sure if this is related to the refreshes but it was weird. Nobody touched the switch but it is reporting physical events that did not happen.

I had some wierd things happen when I was refreshing switches frequently. Had similar issues in ST too, knowing they polled the switches I know why now. When Lowes had sales on the Plus switches I switched out many that have rules setup for physical events. I also have motions or contacts control refresh now versus periodic time based. I also have a restriction in these rules to only happen during day mode and not at night to reduce wierd things happening in the middle of the night.

Yeah I'll set up some rules around the refreshes. This particular switch is in a group that refreshes once a minute.

Do you guys stop refreshes completely at night or just go to some really wide period like every 30 minutes or hour or something like that?

I use motion to know there's someone in the area. While motion is true, I enable one of my refresh rule's boolean. When motion ends, the refresh rule's boolean is set false. Which rule's boolean is based on the area around the motion. If there's motion in the Kitchen, I don't need a refresh of the bedroom, for example.

In my house, I have zero rules related to the state of a switch/dimmer. So I have no specific need for up to the second status. I really only care from a Dashboard display viewpoint. For me then, "rapid refresh" is about 30 seconds, while "slow refresh" is 2 minutes.

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I moved a motion sensor to the bathroom where I want frequent refreshes (30 seconds)...I have some rules that set 3 dimmers really low when we go to bed, so they are ready to be turned on at night without going to full brightness first. Then the first time they are turned on the next morning, they step from about 5% brightness back to 100% in two steps. I really only need to refresh them frequently when there's motion in the bathroom and the lights are still in "night mode". Looks like I can't access another rule's private boolean as a condition though (there's 3 rules for this, and I would want to refresh if any of the 3 are false), unless I'm missing something.

The two switches that I've found so far that are turning themselves on and off and reporting physical events are on a 1 minute refresh period. This is the part I don't understand, it's not all that frequent. I just watched my hallway lights turn off with me in the room next door, and sure enough, they reported a physical event. That's frustrating.

I moved a couple motion sensors around, here's what I have now. There's 33 total GE non-plus z-wave devices in my house.

22 of these are now covered by motion sensors. These 22 devices are split into 3 groups based on motion sensor location. When motion is active and mode is night or home, I refresh these devices every 30 seconds.

The remaining 11 devices I refresh every 5 minutes when mode is home or night.

Hopefully this eliminates the false physical event reporting and switches turning themselves on or off. I still don't understand how asking for a refresh makes a device change state and report a physical event though.

It's not just switches....dimmers are setting themselves too. Even with motion based refreshes. This is not workable for me long term, gotta figure something out...

Do you absolutely need the switches to report physical status updates? I have managed to work around this limitation for my old GE switches/Dimmers. I just let the automations send commands to these devices regardless of their current status. I know this may not work for every situation, but maybe for most? Then you can just replace the few critical switches/dimmers with newer ones that do properly report.

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Most of them no, but it defeats the purpose of the dashboard if the switch states are incorrect.

The ones that are used as triggers/conditions (6 total), yes.

Again, the pressing question is why a refresh request causes these false physical events to be reported. This is what I don't understand. There's a problem here somewhere, no way that can be "expected" behavior.

Started a new thread on this

Just as a heads up, I implemented everything as suggested in this thread. The issue didn't go away. It simply now followed which group prediction was being refreshed, in other words the problem is less widespread. But the underlying cause is still there: a refresh in HE causes issues for GE switches & dimmers, especially the non-plus models.

J

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I was having all the same problems as above. Alexa stating that the switches were not responding and HE was not seeing the updates to switch status. The switches worked fine in terms of turning on or off or dimming. I recently added a switch farher down the line and it would function very irradicly which led me to believe the my other switches were not repeating. I added a range extender between my 1st switch and the hub and all my problems went away. Lesson Learned, The distance between the switch and the hub may have been okay for receiving signals to turn on or off, but it was apparently too far to act as a dependable repeater.