Future Hubitat CHIP support

Blockchain isn't going anywhere. As a buzzword, yes, it's dead and that's why @dJOS says "jumped the shark".

Blockchain as a technique is so boring now it competes with "Accrual Basis" in accounting for worlds most boring technique. Anyone that tries to use blockchain as a marketing advantage needs to hire a new marketing team. :smiley:

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Quote from that article:

companies who participate in those events will likely be the first to get their products certified in β€œlate 2021.”

I know that's still some a 'future' thing but Apple has thread in the HomePod Mini and the new Apple TV. Not sure about Amazon/Google but I think when consumers know it's safe to buy any device b/c it'll work with the smart speaker (or whatever) they have then smart home hardware will sales will boom. Then it'll be who has the best control software. Hubitat can provide that for the geeky folks which is a huge audience. And for those who want local control and/or no microphone in their home!

Also, I'd replace my old Hubitat with a thread version if it meant that my hardware choices and network reliability improved.

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Seconded.

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They wouldn't necessarily need to do that - they could release a "thread" hub in addition to the existing hub with HubMesh being the link.

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Full hub or add-on, I'd buy it on release day. I guess I'm a sucker for buzzwords.

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:+1:

Yeah thinking about it a little more maybe an upgraded hub is the way. Migration service to move over the legacy stuff, thread hw for new devices. Less overhead they have to deal with - one product line etc. Keeping with the "compatible with (most) everything" philosophy dunno but fun to speculate!

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I have been making my own Zigbee devices. I use modules that support Zigbee and Thread/CHIP with firmware update. Here is what I learnt. It is not meant to express my opinion on what Hubitat will do in regards to CHIP. I do not have a clue in this regards. But, I can share what I know about the protocols and current device "possible" support CHIP.

Zigbee & Thread use the same physical MAC 802.15.4 layer. The protocol above 802.15.4 that make up Zigbee or Thread is typically implemented in firmware. Therefore, this architecture can support Zigbee or Thread with just firmware update.

Zigbee is very thick protocol. Its specification cover layers from mac (the lowest) to applications (Zigbee cluster library). I believe CHIP come in and take the MAC and Application layer from Zigbee. Then, CHIP just replace the middle layer with Thread. This make sense since Thread has some advantages in regard to ipv6 compatibility. CHIP also has newer, easier and hopefully more secure pairing process that take advantage NFC and BLE.

I am working nrf52840 MCU. I am making Zigbee devices based on this module. The SDK that I have access to can build Thread or Zigbee stacks. It is certified on both stacks. The nrf52840 platform just happen to have all the ingredient to support CHIP as well (it has working demo of CHIP implementation). I suspect many current shipping devices may be able to be converted to CHIP in the future with firmware update.

"Converting" an existing device from CHIP to Zigbee vice versa without "re-pairing" process will be difficult. "Converting" a hub from supporting CHIP to Zigbee vice versa without re-pairing its devices will be very difficult. The pairing data (keys) between Zigbee and CHIP may not be compatible.

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Is this not the book of goods that Zigbee and Z-Wave are already selling? That is the thing I have never understood about CHIP, what does it do better that Zigbee or Z-Wave do not already do? One could tighten that question down to "What does it do better that Zigbee or Z-Wave could not fix in an update?" but I think that get into the weeds to much.

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I second this question.
Perhaps they can pontificate about "interoperability". But, I think that the current Hub implementations (Hubitat, Home Assistant, OpenHab, etc.) do very well with current Zigbee implementation. What more do they need?
Why do we need Thread? What does it give me? (That I don't already have).

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Apple brand? woot

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In all seriousness, this is a big deal. The Apple ecosystem does work extremely well for those in it.

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Backing by the major tech players out there. Simple as that.

You want wide adoption? Get Google and Apple working together. You want to be able to tie all these minor vendors together, this is the road towards that. Entities that can muscle crappy vendors that can't follow standards specifications (Hubitat Z-Wave issues with the 700 series security implementations come to mind, shitty ZLL implementations, etc) into compliance. There are tons of developers that will take an SDK and make the basic stuff work while taking a crap on the rest. It's going to take something much larger to tame that. Much larger than what currently exists.

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But, iirc, most of the players from zigbee and z-wave are also a part of CHIP, so to me it basically seems like the likes of Apple and Google flexing at the industry to create a new standard that they have a say in at the ground level, versus trying to make an existing standard work for them, all at the cost of the consumer. I would include Amazon in that list, but out of the three, they seem to be the most consumer centric in this regard at least with their adoption of zigbee.

I would never say that those players would do it out of the sheer need to clean up the space. I'm not that naive, lol. Of course, they will have something to gain from it. My point is that they have the best chance of getting us to proper standards compliance. It's precisely their ability to flex that gives this a better chance than most new "standards".

All that is obviously qualified by "like it or not"

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You might be right, but that is a big gamble to make IMO, a gamble worth making if the current systems are broken, unmanageable, or unfixable, but in my experience, that is far from reality. Yes, there are some bad actors, there are some incompatibilities, but they are the exception, not the rule and I will take a more burdensome but open ecosystem, then a "clean and tidy" closed one every single day. Maybe I am in the minority, and if so, so be it, but that does not change my opinion.

I also do not trust the track record of these companies to actually follow through and maintain support versus just abandoning CHIP for something "bigger and better".

100%, the "Google Graveyard" is definitely a thing.

That said, while my home is pretty stable, I think part of that is because I've chosen (and paid handsomely for) what I consider best of breed devices and shaped all of my non-Z purchases around the existence and usability of external APIs. Others, as evidenced by all the forums out there, might place affordability higher and will take their chances in the dark back allies of AliExpress. That said, my node-red flows are STILL all over the place. I make it work, but that doesn't make me stop dreaming about a single protocol home. <- I probably never will.

A man can dream, right? right??!? someone? anyone?

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Oh, also, if Google were the only major tech company to be a part of this (or just Apple, or just Amazon, etc), I would be singing a completely different tune. (and I've got no less than 10 Google Assistant devices around my house)

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I get what you are saying, but there also is the other side of the spectrum with too many cooks in the kitchen. It is a very hard balance to meet with such big companies in play, which is why I opt on the side of fix rather than replace if possible. It naturally tempers the strength of those players to a reasonable state.

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True. But I believe the "smart" home is most likely the next major consumer in-road for these companies so either they work together to expand the group of interested buyers or it'll remain a geeky hobby and nobody makes a great deal of money on it because it just doesn't provide the value.

I've never been wrong before. ever. :rofl:

I agree with you, it 100% will be their next large revenue stream if they play their cards right, but as Amazon has shown, they can do it with the existing tech. The only reason they want a new standard is because they don't want to play in someone else's sand pit, if they aren't the biggest player on a given hill, then they will destroy the hill and build a new one, with the same players, but a new leader. IMHO, that is what is going on here.

Also do not get me wrong, I know this is how business works, and I do not blame them for it, they are only using the power that consumers have given them. But the consumers are the only ones really hurt in this scenario.