Feedback from a new Customer - Rule Machine Needs a Better UI

Ok, I really do not like the Rule Machine UI and I hope to outline why here (hopefully it's coherent):

  • Too many clicks to do anything
  • Too many screens to navigate through
  • As a result, it's too hard to visualize what you are trying to build
  • It's Too easy to make mistakes that cant be fixed without tearing your rules down and starting again (classic eg IF, THEN, ELSE)
  • Editing existing rules is painful
  • There no easy way to watch what your Rule is seeing and how it's reacting in real-time

Just some background on me - make of it what you will. Im just another 45-year-old life long IT professional who started out using MS DOS 2.11 in the late 80's on an XT class machine with 256kb of RAM and no Hard Disk. While im quite a visual person, I have no trouble navigating command lines and do so regularly on my various Linux machines.

I do however really dislike needlessly complicated UI's and RM is one such example! The rest of HE is really fantastic and I'm loving it less than 2 weeks after my C7 arrived and I migrated everything I could off my Vera to HE.

Anyway, I know I could install Node-Red (and I might, but I object to having to install an external-to-hub automation component on principal), but what I would really like to request is Hubitat take a look at what I personally think is the best in-class Home automation plugin bar none.

It's visual, it's powerful and it's fast - It's Reactor for Vera and it's the only reason I spent the last 2 years on that dumpster fire of a platform.

Here's the Independent developer explaining how to use it from May last year - ignore the rest of the Vera Platform, it's junk - please pay attention to the Status, Conditions and Activities tabs:

/2c

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Just to give you an idea of how Reactor handles a lot of logic very easily - here's my AC Cooling Logic on the Status Page. It's super easy to see all the states being tracked and if any of the logic has tripped:

On the Conditions page is were you setup the above logic (just showing the 1st 2 groups so this post isnt a mile long):

Then on the Activities Page you can see what actions are to be taken if the logic groups are True or False:

I'd honestly hate to try and replicate this on RM (I'm not saying it cant be done) - it would make me even less sane than I am already. :crazy_face:

and here's Patrick explain the group logic structures in more detail:

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I registered just so I could say that I agree. I'm also a 45 year old IT / programmer. I've worked with and designed a lot of UI over the years - and there's some room for improvement in Rule Machine. There's a lot of steps required to create a rule. After every couple clicks I'm brought to a new page. I occasionally get lost in the middle of creating a rule. Apparently, there's too many steps and pages for my old brain. I'd like to see breadcrumb navigation or some other visual aid, so I always know where I am in the rule creation process. Also, the page layout could be better organized (better use of headings, grouping similar items, etc.) The Reactor layout looks pretty good to me (but I've never used it).
I give credit to the devs. Rule Machine is very powerful and works great after I create a rule - but I often dread creating new rules. Please keep polishing the UI. Thanks!!!

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Yes it is powerful but I often lose my train of thought while making more complex rules ( I have young kids and a wife all driving me crazy during our lockdown) and then I have to start over which is frustrating.

Yep, this is why I made this post, I don't want to bash the devs, I want to show them there is a better way. Powerful shouldn't mean complicated. I could use Reactor to make simple automations just as easily as complex ones.

IMO, HE has two Automation systems (Simple Rules & Rule Machine) becasue RM is too complicated to make simple rules quickly and easily.

Node Red is your friend

Edit - in all seriousness I wouldn't say it sucks, but I think if appeals to a certain way of thinking. My real annoyance is editing rules as I think home automation is dynamic and RM doesn't necessarily cater well for that

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Yeah I know:

Have you tried webCoRE?

I missed that bit sorry

Im not aware of it, this is week 2 of me owning a HE.

All good, it is a bit of a wall of text.

If you are interested I can send you the links.
There is a learning curve with it too but I just find I easier.
Here is an example of a 'piston^.

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Sure thing - looks a bit like yaml?

Are you using Hubitat Package Manager?
If so do a search for webCoRE and download.
If you are not I would highly recommend you do as you can have notifications of any custom apps or drivers you may be using.
Just search for it.

no but it is on my to-do list.

Cheers, I'll take a look.

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It may not be what you are looking for but numerous people on here use it and it does work well. As does RM I should add but I suppose it's just personal choice.
There is a webCoRE forum as well which answers a lot of peoples questions.

Is WebCoRE cloud dependent in execution?

Btw, for those wondering, Im not a complete numpty and I can use RM (see below), I just think it needs a simpler and more logical approach.

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Ok, maybe I am dumb (However, I searched the forum a bunch while trying to figure this out), but there is no way I can find in RM to measure the duration of a state and trigger on a defined duration being met. You can only have a delayed action. :man_facepalming:

eg I wanted to setup a rule that when the house changed to Night mode (aka bedtime), if the garage door had been open for 15 mins+, close it. Unless Im missing something obvious, the only option in RM is to simply wait 15 mins from the trigger before running the action! :man_facepalming:

Well as a Old Vera user and now HE i can Agree. RuleMachine is very confusing and not user friendly. For exemple way use <> >= signs and so on why not just greater then or lower then or equal.

The Vera app Reactor is a killer .. so Easy for a newbie and so powerful.

I do understand that the HE dev team might start doing the plattform more user frindly when is solid and work good.

I must also look at. Webcore!
/ Mattias

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In that case I'll pass, Local automation is a key feature for me.

Aha saw that with webcore now, pass to!

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