My C3 is acting flaky and I am thinking about upgrading to the C7. Does the C7 have more resources available to it than the C3? I am torn between staying with HE or moving to OpenHAB. With OpenHAB I can decide how much hardware I want to throw at it.
It definitely has both as well as the 700 series chip for better distance and security (when paired with 700 series devices)
Thank you. I was looking for the technical data and I was unable to find it.
The C3/C4 are identical in CPU/Memory/Storage. The C5/C7 are identical, except the C7 has a 700 series Z-Wave chip. The C3/C4 use an external USB stick for Zigbee/Z-Wave, while the C5/C7 use internal radios.
All four hubs have quad-core ARM CPU's running at very similar clock speeds. All four have the same amount of RAM (1GB) and eMMC flash storage (8GB). All four have 100Mbps Ethernet. The C5/C7 platform is receiving additional networking features, and is the platform that is actively being developed by the Hubitat Team, although all 4 models due receive regular updates. Thus far, only the optional networking features (C5/C7) and 700 Series Z-Wave features (C7) really differentiate the hubs.
The big difference between the C3/C4 and the C5/C7 is that the C5/C7 are running a 32bit version of Linux, which is able to utilize the resources of the hub more efficiently than the 64bit version of Linux running on the C3/C4.
I am still running my whole home on the C3 and have a C7 as my development hub. FWIW. I personally don't feel like the migration effort is worth it in my situation.
12 Likes
Yeah. Unfortunately I am tired of my C3 becoming unresponsive and having to reboot. I have a C5 also but my C3 runs things like webcore and other community apps. I do not like rule machine at all. So I was thinking about going with a pi4 and OpenHAB unless moving to a C7 was going to give me more resources or better performance.
2 Likes
Understood. As I mentioned, the C5/C7 does utilize its resources more efficiently than the C3/C4, so there is an improvement. But possibly not as much as what you're looking for. webCoRE is quite a massive application. I personally use Rule Machine for only the automations that Hubitat's other built-in apps cannot handle. This has worked well for my family's needs. YMMV, of course! 
If you do decide to run a RPi4, be sure to use a High Endurance mircoSD card (or boot off of a USB SSD) to avoid failure. Also, curious why you'd move to OpenHAB as opposed to Home Assistant?
I wish you well in whatever you decide!
To be honest I thought home assistant was another piece of hardware you have to buy and pay for the software.
I can't speak to the differences. I started with a C4 and now have a C5 and C7 running. I have a second C7 as a spare that may be installed in place of the C5. However, I have very few Z-wave devices so it will likely stay as a backup. I still have the C4, and am thinking of how I can use it. I expect that the change from 64 bit to 32 bit Linux between the C3/4 and C5/C7 is because 64 bit Linux uses more memory for the same tasks. In the memory constrained hardware of the HE hubs, 32-bit is therefore the better choice. Even OpenHABian recommends using the 32 bit version for this reason.
I looked at the OpenHAB page. It looks like an interesting idea, but you still would need to add the communications part (Z-Wave stick, Zigbee stick, and/or some hub that can do those) to be able to actually make it work. Plus, the time and effort to do so will not be trivial. OTOH, once that effort is invested, you would have a system that looks like it is capable of quite a bit more. The demo charts of temperature on the web site mean tracking of statistics for heat or other energy use would be possible if one wants to do that type of thing. However, that is something I can live without.
My system works well, and I don't have to spend time hacking each and every detail in order for it to do so. I like the Hubitat Elevation system and will stick with it.
1 Like
That would be HomeSeer... 
Home Assistant can run on many hardware platforms. It is definitely much more of a DIY solution, which is very intimidating to many users. Although, the HA team has done a significant amount of work to make the process of getting it up and running much easier, especially on a RPi.
Other options available to you are to build a hybrid solution.
For example, you could have a Raspberry Pi running Node-RED, linked to your Hubitat Hub. You could offload some of your heavy duty webCoRE automations to Node_RED. There are many threads where users describe doing this. Another option would be to use Hubitat + Home Assistant. There are integrations written that allow Hubitat Devices to appear in Home Assistant, and another one that allows the opposite. So, there is quite a bit of flexibility available. Use the best of each platform!
3 Likes
I've run HA successfully as a test server and used the old Nortek Stick (for US C3/C4s)..
OpenHab uses a jvm like HE does. I've always wondered if there were some connections between the two.. 
I do like the ability to upgrade hardware as needed and have finer grained control over my environment - this is one of the reasons why I use Node-RED running on a companion server in conjunction with HE for all my rules and certain integrations etc...
2 Likes
I wasn't trying to bash HE at all. I just think I have outgrown it with the current hardware configuration. If they offered a way to run their firmware on hardware I had or offered different tiers of hardware to purchase, I would probably jump on that.
I have already messed around with OpenHAB so I am not afraid to switch, I was actually trying to stick with HE if they had a more beefy piece of hardware.
Consider a multi-hub configuration then.. Hubs by location works very well extending the strength of your meshes and HubMesh to share devices. I have mine set up by protocol which is a little different but still great - so C7 for Z-Wave, 2 C5s for Zigbee and Network/Cloud. Also recommend if you feel the need for "more" then a companion server like Node-RED - incredibly flexible and adaptable - allows you to keep your "rules" consistent across all platforms. Of course the "visual flow" paradigm is not to everyone's tastes so ymmv.
1 Like
I'm curious, how big is your setup? Mine is probably average in terms of devices and my C-3 requires regular restarts to maintain its performance. But as a single hub it's easily capable of running all my HA devices and automations.
Currently this amounts to:
- 80 devices: 22 Z-Wave and 58 Zigbee. Probably equal number of virtual devices.
- 124 WebCoRE pistons
- 44 Simple Automation rules, 7 Button Controllers, 6 Motion and Mode Lighting apps
- Maker API
- HubConnect (keeping tabs on a few ST devices and cloud integrations)
- a handful of Groovy apps
12 devices are Zigbee power reporting plugs. Zigbee power reporting causes no issues in my mesh; my automations require it as several monitor aquarium pumps and heater wattage in real time. Z-Wave is problematic in this area so I'm phasing it out.
I find that everything runs predictably fast and flawlessly for 48-72 hours; zero errors are logged. Without therapeutic reboots I'll eventually notice delays, missed timed events, and a variety of java and database errors in the log. That's the way it has been pretty much since mid-2018; the reboots are automated so its tenable.
As an aside, I find that WebCoRE runs efficiently on HE. I haven't compared its performance to Rule Machine since RM version 3 (I have since uninstalled it), but two years ago WebCoRE easily beat it in the benchmarks I devised. Back then I also found my hub required fewer reboots when running WebCoRE than Rule Machine for the same types of automations; WebCoRE has been further optimized since.
I've had a C-7 waiting in the wings since it became available; I like the efficiency of the C-7 hardware (it runs notably cooler and I agree with @ogiewon's assessment of the 32-bit vs 64-bit JVM resource utilization). Its newer Z-Wave chip has advantages, at least on paper-- but anecdotally the Z-Wave 700 series seems to be causing issues that I don't see C-3/C-4/C-5 users complain about.
At any rate, Z-Wave is not important to me going forward. It's my perception that Z-Wave (mesh as opposed to LR) has become more of an architectural kludge the further it has strayed from its original home lighting automation design point. SiLab's rush from 500 to 800 series has reinforced this impression.
4 Likes
According to Support they keep blaming the community apps for my problem, but I need them. I use Ring Connect, WebCoRE, Advanced Hue, Homebridge, and Alexa Speaks. WebCoRE and Advanced hue are needed to get around some of the limitations of the apps in Hubitat. ( I absolutely HATE Rule Machine ). I have a C5 that seems to be fine, but I don't run community apps on it. So I have a RPi 4 here that I can install anything I want on it, so why buy a C7 when I already have the hardware here? Now if the C7 offered more than just a slight hardware refresh I could see spending the money.
I have that. I am running a C3 for the basement and a C5 for the rest. The C3 always has problems and is running community apps
I am currently running node-red but I am having issues with some of the pallets. Alexa integration was working during my testing but now it won't speak the payload I am sending.
I also don't like the homebridge integration.
I found that to be true on my C4's which after one died I retired the remaining one and switched over to C5s + a C7. There is definitely a slow memory leak over time.
I am using the "applestrudel" version of Alexa remote2 nodes - have not had that issue yet. 
I do send alerts through my Sonos speakers using the node-red-contrib-tts-ultimate node.
Also I agree the Homebridge node leave a lot to be desired. I am using it to activate my Ring floodlights - have essentially disabled the built in process and am using the Ring motion and some other sensors for other sequences as well. Pretty nifty.
