Does it Matter?

[SmartHomePrimer]

I didn't notice a mention of bridge support in the release announcement. Is that finished or still pending completion?

[dcaton1220]

@mike.maxwell

Alexa devices pair to the account, not the individual Alexa device...

Ok, so if I pair a Matter device to a Matter-capable Alexa device, I'm not paring it to that local device but the (cloud) account?

If so, then the ability to control that Matter device is potentially pushed out to all other Matter-enabled Alexa devices on my account? Would have to be I assume, for local-only control of the Matter device (voice recognition issues notwithstanding).

[thebearmay]

Believe I saw that the Matter bridge was supported but that a driver hadn't been written yet.

[bcopeland]

@SmartHomePrimer

bridge support

The hub supports bridges.. We don't have any built-in bridge drivers yet.. I'm finishing up the driver dev docs to release shortly so the community devs can jump in.. We just released a Matter sample driver on the public Hubitat github..

[bcopeland]

Link to that driver:

hubitat/HubitatPublic/blob/master/examples/drivers/thirdRealityMatterNightLight.groovy

[JasonJoel]

@dcaton1220

By "local network" do you mean wifi? So a Matter/Thread device has 2 radios, one to communicate using Thread and another to make the device visible on a wifi network?

Thread Matter devices talk via thread to the Matter controller/fabric they are joined to.

Then a Thread Border Router would act as the man in the middle for other Matter controllers that are not on that thread fabric to communicate with the thread device.

So if you paired the thread Matter device to Alexa, any of the Alexas that are TBRs would be the man in the middle (Thread Border Router) to let external systems communicate/use the thread device on their thread fabric.

It's all shown graphically in this post. I recommend it:

Matter Explained

What is Matter? Matter is a new open-source standard for smart home devices that improves interoperability and compatibility between different manufacturers. It offers enhanced security features and allows local control of devices from one or more Matter controllers at the same time. [image] source: Connectivity Standards Alliance What devices support Matter? Currently, there are Matter-enabled devices available on the market in the following categories: lighting products (plugs, light bul…

[bobbles]

Thanks for all the responses and information that has been posted on this topic.
I think I have a grasp of how this works.
From a personal point of view, until I buy a device that has matter controller capability, there is no point in my looking into this.
The irony is, my wife often looks at upgrading our 'tech'. I tend to knock back if we don't need to upgrade. (My black and white TV works just fine on the 4 channels available on it).
I may have a route to follow here.

[JasonJoel]

@bobbles

From a personal point of view, until I buy a device that has matter controller capability, there is no point in my looking into this.

Correct. Unless you have devices that support Matter there is nothing to do or see here.

If/when Hubitat supports bridge devices there may be more to do for some, as I expect some will have hubs/3rd party devices that will act as Matter bridges already that they can then use in Hubitat. But until then, it is Matter device only.

[rlithgow1]

@dcaton1220

Ok, interesting idea. But there would have to be some way to manage this. I have 6 Alexa devices in my house (and several more sitting in a box). It would not be practical to pair the 50 or so Inovelli switches I have to all 6 of those Alexas if it required 300 individual pairings (assuming I flashed the Inovellis to use Matter when that becomes available).

You wouldn't really have to. Only to those you want it to. Now if hubitat were a matter bridge you could expose all non matter devices to another matter controller.

@dcaton1220

Also interesting, but that would likely require replacing all of the echo devices I'd think.

Why? Hue is also a matter bridge and can be paired to alexa or google or siri...

[dcaton1220]

@rlithgow1

Why? Hue is also a matter bridge and can be paired to alexa or google or siri...

To have complete local control from Alexa, you'd need an Alexa device that can handle voice recognition locally. Probably impossible given current technology, or anything even remotely on the horizon. Of course, that's completely out of scope in the context of Matter.

So in the context of Alexa, Google, Siri and the like, you may end up with local control of Matter devices from your local Matter-capable voice devices, but the voice devices themselves cannot really do anything useful without sending audio to the cloud for recognition/interpretation.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but not local control in the strictest sense. Of course, touchscreen enabled Alexa devices might be able to operate 100% locally. Would be interesting to see if current zigbee-capable touchscreen Alexas can operate without the cloud.

[rlithgow1]

Well yeah, the voice aspect of it is a whole nother thing. Lets put it this way then. When they finish building the bridge drivers for hubitat, you can include any matter bridge to hubitat and expose whats on the other side regardless of the protocol. So if you have a bunch of hue bluetooth devices on a hue bridge, they can be used (yes we have the native hue integration and cocohue but you know what you what I mean)

[JasonJoel]

Voice may/may not go to the cloud. That is getting fuzzier and fuzzier. But you're right that when it does, then that is cloud dependent. Good point.

I was thinking more of accessing/controlling the devices from the Google Home app, Alexa app, or Apple home app -which doesn't have to go to cloud for all functions.

A lot of people pop open their phone and use the native apps for device control (google, alexa, apple).

[mike.maxwell]

@dcaton1220

Matter-enabled

The other echos dont need specific matter support. The device will show up in the alexa app and will be controllable from any of then. Matter devices dont work any differently than other devices connected to them...

[dcaton1220]

@mike.maxwell

Matter devices dont work any differently than other devices connected to them...

Ok, but other (non-matter) devices connect to Alexa via the HE skill.

Do Matter devices connected to HE also show up in the list of devices that are exposed to Alexa via the HE skill? Or are Matter devices limited to only being seen by another local Matter-capable controller?

[mike.maxwell]

@dcaton1220

Do Matter devices connected to HE also show up in the list of devices that are exposed to Alexa via the HE skill

If you want...

[bill.d]

@mike.maxwell

If you want...

@gopher.ny has restricted this pattern for HomeKit. Not sure if the same loop conditions are possible with other controllers. From a Beta thread:

"Yeah, it was possible to have a Matter device shared through HomeKit integration and added directly to Apple Home. That was a good way to get the two into an infinite update loop, with predictably bad results."

[vitaliy_kh]

@bcopeland

The hub supports bridges.. We don't have any built-in bridge drivers yet..

Just an idea. How about to create something like "Virtual Matter-Zigbee(ZWave) Driver"?
I.e. each Device brought in via Matter Bridge (for instance, SwitchBot toys) will look like
say, Zigbee(ZWave) Device and existing (generic?) drivers could be used.

[lcw731]

@hydro311

That's the long & short of it for me too... I'm looking at it as opening up more possibilities rather than solving missing functionality or a gap along those lines

I didn't need anything but wanted to play with it. I have been negative on matter previously. I went ahead and picked up a three-pack of the nanoleaf essentials bulbs. For the most part (there are a couple of exceptions) they have been pretty stable and have gotten better throughout the beta. I did have a weird blip the other night, no idea what caused it. I am in the minority of people who have had nothing but problems with Zigbee. For me, it is like Zwave for others (yes I'm heavily into Zwave). These matter bulbs have allowed me to get rid of most of my Zigbee stuff (except hue motion sensors).
I won't go all out replacing stuff just to replace it, but I would at least consider it as a new option.

[BorrisTheCat]

Any reason why the hub is itself not a bridge/ could it be in the future?

Makes sense that hubitat bring all the devices in so they can be controlled through automations. Then I'm thinking more of a case of using the big three apps for control of devices that were not matter (zigbee and z-wave).

[JasonJoel]

That. The "Z" hubs being Matter bridges is really what most people will want in Matter (my opinion).