I have existing ELCO halogen can lights with magnetic transformers. I want to switch the GU5.3 base halogen for LED'S and control (on/off and dim) with Hubitat. I can't find a wall dimmer or a dimming module that says it will handle this load (>50W).
50 watts? I think all dimmers can handle 50 watts.
It's not the size of the load that's the problem. It's the inductive load. I included the >50W load info because there are multiple fixtures to control. I have cooked a rgbgenie controller due to the load. Thanks for responding though. I thought I might have posted this in the wrong place. I'm new here and just learning the ropes.
You can post anywhere. Nobody seems to mind. You'll get more answers once they all wake up I think.
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So bypass the transformer? There are 120V dimmable GU5.3 LED available, although not as common as some bulb types.
Magnetic transformers often don't like to be dimmed, and I have burned up both transformers and dumb dimmer switches trying to do so. In my case it was one of those flexible strip lights with the 5-6 mini spotlights on it that was causing issues.
Now I only purchase 120V devices. My current flexible strip light has 120V halogen MR16 that I am going to do LED in someday, but I like the clean light this fixture gives off with no buzzing. This is the very last non-LED in the house! And it will be great to get rid of 300W of heat and energy use.
I have over 40 of these fixtures. Many not accessible to modify from above which requires removing the fixture. I was hoping to avoid all that work. In addition I have some cable lights which cannot be modified for obvious reasons. Thanks for the help but I still hope someone has a workable solution. I'm waiting for a reply from Aeotec but am not optimistic.
Thanks again
I don't think you are going to have much luck. The magnetic transformer is a huge issue...
You have 40 of these fixtures on one circuit?
You said you cooked an RGBgenie product? I’m looking at those products. Those are primarily 24VDC constant current drivers. That’s very different than an MLV dimmer, so I’m a little confused why you’re using that product to dim these fixtures?. A retrofit lamp that goes into a can will typically want a leading or trailing edge dimmer. In the case of MLV, usually leading edge (forward phase).
PS- welcome to the community!
Thanks for the welcome. I am quite impressed, no say astounded at the response I've gotten. Waffles, neonturbo, and now JoshBI555 have given their time and expertise freely to help me. It is greatly appreciated.
The 40 fixtures are spread over 8 or so circuits and about 12 switch legs. The attempt at using rgbgenie ZB-4002 micro controller was an uninformed catastrophe. I cooked about 5 of them before I was informed they wouldn't work on inductive loads. Entirely my bad.
I bought this house after the former owner, as a result of bank foreclosure, had stripped all the Lutron Homeworks hardware. I didn't like the idea of having to have an authorized company representative reinstall it and doing any repairs or modifications. I'm a diy guy. Besides, I didn't feel I could afford it.
I may be in over my head but I will keep treading water until I get a working system.
Thanks guys
What about the Caseta line of products? For example PF-5NE.
You can see a list here, just search for mlv...
https://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/SingleRoomControls/CasetaWireless/ModelNumbers.aspx
Hey guys. Just received response from Aeotec. According to their engineer "If you want to control and dim the lights then you would want to use Nano Dimmer. I apologize, i meant the transformer in reference to driver, i typically imagine drivers with low voltage LED lighting.
As long as the output of the transformer is VAC, then the Nano Dimmer should allow dimming of the MLV transformer/lighting.
What'da'ya think?
It seems like an ok candidate. Where will you install it? If you install it behind your wall switch, will you have the depth in the box with the existing switch?
What’s your dimming plan? If you wire your existing switch to it, you gain dimming from the hub, but it still looks like you would lack local control at the switch for dimming? Maybe they make a product that replaced the switch that allows you to dim locally?
I am a really big fan of devices which not only act as a dimmer, but replace the switch with controls in front for local dimming at the switch. That way, you can set a level via your hub or locally at the device.
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Nano Dimmer can control lights and loads that draw up to 1.2 amps of power.
So at 50W (.4A at 120V), you can run at most 3 of these off one Nano. But I would probably stick with just 2 on a Nano at most for a little safety factor. Unless you were going to put every individual light on a single Nano?
So at $60 per Nano, and 20 light pairs that would be $1200 in just Nano modules. Or worse yet if you are talking one on each light, $2400.
Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to just replace the cans at that point OR do a retrofit fixture? You can buy a LOT of LED recessed lights for $1200-$2400. To buy 40 OK quality (Home Depot, not cheap Amazon stuff) LED would cost probably between $500-$750. If you want to gamble a little, you can get cheap ones on Amazon for like $300 for that many LED.
I can't see the logic in trying to use the Nanos.
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I think you mean the PD-5NE.
That is a good choice with a few"ifs".
- There are some rules about multi-gang switch boxes and derating the dimmers if applicable in this situation.
- The transformer must be dimmer rated, you need to find this out from the manufacturer.
- The transformer is also derated 75% according to Lutron, so if your transformer is rated 50W, this won't work if the bulbs draw 50W. It likely will damage the transformer, maybe not immediately, but over time.
- No switch has more than 300W load, so six 50W bulbs.
- You will need a Lutron Bridge Pro 2 to integrate with Hubitat.
See the Lutron installtion brochure here. https://webapiaw1proddat01st01.blob.core.windows.net/assets/documents/0301816.pdf
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Another good suggestion would be the Zooz line of products. They have things for less money than Lutron products, but Lutron is the best in my opinion. As @lkscgs notes in the first post, he wants to retrofit GU5.3 halogens for LEDMR16 lamps.
One thing I will say is dimming can be a mixed bag on this route. Do an entire circuit with a new in wall dimmer and new LED lamps to test the performance before expanding doing it all.
As noted be @neonturbo , a retrofit fixture that gets rid of the transformers may also be a good option here.
Wow! Lots of info for a newbie to absorb. I'm gonna need a day or 2 for it all to sink in.
The way the house is wired is circuits from the panel go to junctions in closets where the Homeworks Wall Modules were then to the individual lighting circuits. There are no local switches. Where switches would be is only signal wire that with the Lutron system could control any light anywhere. I am able to use the signal cable to get 110V at these locations. I intended to install the Nanos in the closets and use something like the rgbgenie ZW3001 Touch Panel and Dimmer for local control and supplement them where needed with remotes.
I'll need to consider costs versus effort in bypassing the transformers which may turn out as suggested to be the best option.
I need to study the Lutron option too as I have ignored Lutron and am not familiar with their products outside of Homeworks.
You could also use the Lutron RadioRA2 products. It can be installed DIY, after you complete their online free training class.
In general, it should like your house was designed around a Lutron lighting system. It is probably best to get some quotes from Lutron dealers to see what it would cost to put the house back to something close to its original design, IMHO.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I will say that I love my Lutron lighting system, as it always works, without fail. It cost more than other smart switch/dimmer solutions, but I believe it actually adds value to a home, and is much, much more reliable than Z-wave/ Zigbee/WiFi solutions.
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I did check about going back to the original. Here in Hawaii the price a year or 2 ago was $35K+. Out of my range unfortunately and would lock me into depending on others for anything needed in the future. I'll look into RadioRA. Thanks for the input.
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Thinking about your response I've a question. The nanos are rated 1.2A @ 120V or 144W. If I am using 12V Leds rated at 6.6W seems like I should be able to put several on one nano. Like 20 (6.6W X 20 = 132W). Yes?
I think there should be smart dimmers out there that can work with this type of load. I did my first batch of z-wave way back with Leviton Vizia RF dimmers, including the VRMX1, which was described as "universal" including specifically magnetic low-voltage applications. I do actually use one of them in this mode for under-shelf LED strips via magnetic transformer. It works pretty well.
That's a hugely obsolete product now so not very useful for you, but, it existed. Not to mention the actual switch design is a bit weird...
I also read somewhere (as above) that MLV compatibility means that the dimmer uses forward phase (leading edge). I remember seeing Zooz had both types of dimmer in their product line. I think the ZEN72 is leading edge, the ZEN77 trailing. Maybe that might help?
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