Debate on using a Hubitat hub for a security system

Lounge Debate Chamber
21

The documentation and Hubitat Safety Monitor have this language specifically disclaiming the use of Hubitat as a security system.

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@user7093 - you should not expect an ~$100 hub and a free mobile app, for self-monitoring, to take the place of a home security system.

Neither should anyone expect the kind of technical support one would obtain with a genuine ISO-certified monitored security system for which one pays a monthly monitoring fee.

Some, not I, would characterize that latter expectation as somewhat delusional.

22

This is the core issue with your argument, the word "rely". What do you mean by it?

Do you rely on your Kryptonite lock to prevent your bike from being stolen overnight? If so, I have news for you. Doesn't mean you can't or even shouldn't do it.

23

This being the debate chamber, I guess we can debate the analogy, which I don't like.

Look, a Kryptonite lock is expressly sold as a device to secure a bicycle, so perhaps someone might be justified in anticipating some degree of protection from theft if they used such a lock.

In contrast, a Hubitat hub is expressly not sold as a home security system. So it is far more inappropriate to anticipate it to function as one. Or to anticipate the level of tech support one would receive with an ISO-certified home security system,.

24

Good points. I will concede it's not the best analogy.

The point of the analogy was: even something sold for purpose often can't be relied upon for that purpose.

The broader point was: what does one mean by "rely upon".

25

100% with you on that!

26

Just my 2 cents on the subject, where I live the crime rate is very low and the need for a real security system is somewhat of a luxury except of course for fire monitoring that can happen to anyone in any demographic. So having a full fledge security system for me is not worth the money. Having HE monitor some sensors like garage door, entry doors, monitor the wired smoke alarms is just a bonus to the offering, if I did not have HE, I would not get an alarm system anyways.

So no, I'm not relying on it for anything, if I get an alert that a smoke alarm went off, I'll check the few cameras or call a neighbor to check on the house if possible, if I see anything I'll call 911, if I don't get the alert, well that's on me and I'll deal with it.

So basically, everyone's situation is different and everyone's level of nervousness is also different. If I am confortable not having professional monitoring on my house and you are not, well to each it's own, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours.

27

Im a little surpised that no one has stated they obvious. They dont. the promote and sell 1 device, the hub. That's it. No other devices. Some may consider this splitting hairs, but it is am important distinction. They have long said the hub should not be relied upon for safety or security functions.

28

Yet they support the device and rules to put all those other devices together...

29

So why do they have a built in safety monitor app and when you open the mobile app, it's right there, front and center ?

So actually, they do kind of promote it...

30

Wow...Some of the HE fan boys have really gotten butt hurt over my comment. LOL. Then they try bailing on their arguments when confronted. If you can't stand the heat, don't open your keyboard!

Irregardless of whether or not one should rely on the device, the fact is, that's the way many people are using the device. Whether or not you want to, is up to you.

Also, irregardless of what purpose I, or anyone else is using the hub for, the fact is, there seems to be an issue with the last several firmware releases that is causing the hub to go into a severe load situation, and stop processing some rules for some reason.

The purpose of the HE is to process these rules. The fact that it's not doing that, makes this hub worthless for any purpose, whether it be for the supposedly officially sanctioned purpose of automation or not.

So you guys go ahead and trip over yourselves getting all butt hurt, but the fact is, the code quality for the last several releases appears to be pretty crappy.

I have two of these damn things, and for one of them, the only purpose is to host a few ZWAVE devices in a remote building on my property, and mirror those devices over hub mesh to the primary hub.
That one hub is still generating severe load messages.

So, why can't Hubitat tell me what's going on with that hub that is basically doing nothing, but generating severe load messages?

Say what you want about Smarthings, it may not have had as many features as HE, but the damn thing was solid and never missed a beat.

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32

That is not what you said.

Again. They dont. They Sell, Support (when used as intended) and Promote one device. The hub. That's it. They do not sell any other devices, They do not support any other devices (or community code) and they do not promote any other devices.

Valid point. I believe it has long been discussed it probably should have been called something different, as it does lead to that conclusion. But they have also long said that the hub itself should not be used in this manner. Honestly, I belive the chief reason is the lack of redundancy if there is a an emergency. By stating that, if for whatever reason the hub fails, the rules the user wrote (and they have no control overhow they were written) fail, or essentially any other failure related to the hub, they are disclaiming responsibility becasue the hub was not used as intended, and they can't (understandably) be held responsible for use other than inteded or poor or incorrectly written rules they had no control over.

That being said there are plenty of people who are using the hub in exactly this manner. It's their choice to do so, and hopefully they understood those risks when they made that choice.

Personally I have have considered (but never done so) adding some security-like rules to mine, but again, I am fully aware of the risks and limititations. If it fails and I were to incure some kind of loss as a result, that would be on me.

This whole discussion is a red herring appearing intended only to stir people up while not actually leading to any constructive discussion. To the OP, do what you want. Just understand the possible repercussions that you may have to deal with if you chose to use it in a way other than how it is intended.

33

Perhaps for you. If it were a widescale issue, it would have likely been reported here.

Sorry. 100% not factual and your opinion.

Have you tried asking for support? What have you done with or without Hubitat's help to troubleshoot?

34

I think 99.9% of smart home enthusiasts wouldn't get rid of their devices and call it a day. Most of us put significant time and money into our homes to know that when you mix and match devices from hundreds of manufacturers, you run the risk of tripping over your own sophisticated system. What sets apart Hubitat from conventional security systems is its flexibility. Security systems are built for reliability, redundancy, and emergency management. They are tested for a specific purpose and receive industry certifications to prove it. Smart home hubs are built for flexibility, customization, and innovation — but not for guaranteed life safety.

That doesn’t make them less valuable; it just means they serve different purposes. A hub can complement a security system beautifully, automating lights, notifications, or locks in ways traditional systems can’t because they are too limited. A smart home hub shouldn’t be mistaken for the backbone of your family’s safety.

35

I'm not sure what the intent of bringing this up is. The image is stating that "a smart home is more than controlling lights with an app" -- meaning that you can create automations that do something (e.g., turning lights on or off with motion) instead of just effectively having a very expensive remote control, as some limited (and even not so...) platforms seem to encourage; or just trading one app or a few for another.

There is nothing about this statement that really relates to use for security.

36

Luckily, Hubitat gives you the flexibility of managing your hub on your own terms. If the latest (free) update doesn't work for you, you can always reverse to a version that worked best for you. Head to the Diagnostic Tool and select "Restore previous version". Is that easy...

37

I think this is probably the best way to explain the design philosphy between the two systems. The key to remember is that just because one system can do what the other does doesn't mean they do them as well. There are allot of blurred lines when it comes to home automation hubs and traditional security systems on both sides of that fence. There is no doubt that a that Home automation hub like hubitat could be setup in a way it can function as a Security system. If you understand and wish to take the risk of using it as such then so be it. The same goes for using alarm systems for HA with zwave or zigbee. Both will suffer at some point because of the design philosophy

This is all about risk vs value and using the appropriate tool for the job based on your use case.

It make complete and total sense for the folks at Hubitat to be cautious about this use case, and we as users should listen to the concerns and limitations. If you don't have a conern with those limitations you can use the hub as you like. I will admit i use the hub as a very basic security system with HSM. That said i am very aware of the limitations of such a setup.

38

i use my hubs as security-ish.. i do alert on intrusion when the house is empty and at night (minus internal motion), also alert on water leaks, temps, etc.

i double check when i get alerts with multiple sensors and cameras.. (nothing is 100%), even systems sold just for security. and as mentioned would call 911 or a neighbor or fly home depending on the circumstances.. do i rely on it 100%, no but i use the features.

i belive in some ways it is better than some secuirty systems depending on how you set it up.

case in point the other day.. house auto armed when last vehicle left and i have an app check that everything is closed etc when the house goes to away mode..

got an alert that basement garage door was not closed..

sure enough i had accidentially (even though i swear i did not hit the basement button on the door closer) opened the basement door.. checked in camera.. yep wide open.. came back home and closed it.. Now ordered a relay etc so i can do it remotely.. (i normally leave that door unplugged but had plugged it in so i could open it and add water to the hot tub).

most security systems would not have worked in the same manner.

39

Because Hubitat is not like the Big Brothers of the industry who are looking over your shoulder and into your hub while limiting what you can or can’t do with your hub. Our philosophy is that the sky is the limit of our users’ imagination—and if you climb too high, well… we’re not saying we told you so, but let’s just say your automations might.

40

As far as I can tell, this whole digression was spun off from your original thread because it was obviously a distraction.

If you have any interest in figuring out what’s wrong with your hub setup, other than lazily blaming recent hub platform updates, then please resume that discussion there.

If you want to pointlessly argue here, then that can simultaneously continue.

I’ll add just one thing here. If you’re trying to argue that Hubitat should improve on “pretty crappy” (itself an inflammatory and pointless descriptor) because you’re using it as a security system, then you should reset your expectations, as most other people here have encouraged you to do.

Also, irregardless is not a word. The word is regardless.