Thanks to all for the replies. The TLDR is I am going with these Halo / WiZ lights from Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HALO-RL-Dual-Zone-4-in-Smart-Wi-Fi-Canless-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Downlight-Connected-by-WiZ-Pro-RLWZDZC4/334557796
For those interested in the details, I was going to bite the bullet and get the Hue bulbs and a Hue hub, but they I discovered that the canless (non-retrofit) lights don't come in a 4" size. The 6" size isn't going to work for us in the kitchen, because we want multiple light sources to avoid shadows, and the 6" lights would look too big and be complete overkill in the quantity we want to use.
Despite the recommendations for Govee in this thread, there are some reviews online showing that they may have some quality control issues with those lights (multiple reports that the spring clips that hold them in the ceiling just pull out of the fixture) so I decided against those.
After researching other 4" alternatives, I ordered a set of matter-compatible LiFX "deep baffle" recessed canless lights from Home Depot: Error Page (I don't know why that link shows "Error page" in my editor... it works in an incognito browser window).
These seemed attractive as they have the recessed spot effect that @JumpJump mentioned, and come with magnetic trim pieces that let you change them to black trim or to a flush appearance with a diffuser covering the bulb.
In addition to needing new kitchen lighting, we also wanted to remove the 6 cans in our TV room that had Sengled BR-30 RGBW Zigbee bulbs and replace them with canless lights. The bulbs in those cans stick out past the ceiling, and they produced a lot of glare when they were set to white and anything but their lowest dim levels. The cans we have are an odd almost 5" size that won't accept a retrofit-type canless light, even when they say they are 5"/6" compatible. I tried several and none fit, so the cans needed to go.
Before the LiFX bulbs arrived, we decided to pick up one of the Halo dual-zone lights and one of the Halo 'slim' lights (https://www.homedepot.com/p/HALO-HLB-4-in-Color-and-Tunable-White-Slim-Canless-Smart-Wi-Fi-LED-Recessed-Downlight-with-WiZ-Pro-HLB4069WZRGBWMWR/324821250) that were in stock at the local HD store. The slim lights have the advantage that you can mount them anywhere, even under a joist/rafter. From looking at the website, I really thought the dual-zone lights looked too busy and I expected they would look gimmicky in real life. But we figured we'd give them a try for the TV room since they have a night light feature using just the outer ring light that seemed like it might be good in that room. We figured they were way too busy-looking for the kitchen, so we were evaluating dual-zone for the TV room and the slim light for the kitchen.
I pulled two of the cans in the TV room and installed the Halo lights. After testing them, my wife and I agreed that the slim light with its flush appearance caused way too much glare. It was worse than the old bulbs. The dual-zone lights were much better. I attribute that to the contrast, especially at night when the room is only lit by the bulbs, between the illuminated lens and the ceiling (which is painted white). The slim lights really don't throw any light upwards, so there is a stark contrast between bright bulb and surrounding ceiling. I think that hard contrast is what makes them unpleasant to look at, even indirectly.
On the other hand, the dual-zone lights first have a slightly dimmer area where they are illuminating the interior edge of the fixture, since they're recessed maybe 1/2 inch. When viewed from an angle, the recess hides the nearest edge of the bulb from view. Then they have the ring light that is much dimmer than the main bulb, making a transition from bright bulb to dimmer ring. Add to that the fact that the ring light casts some light upwards towards the ceiling, making for another transition from dim ring light to even dimmer glow on the ceiling. The overall effect is much better.
Once I realized the Halo/WiZ lights have a really great integration to Hubitat using the built-in Wiz integration, that sealed the deal. We're going with the dual-zone lights everywhere. We returned the LiFX bulbs to HD without ever opening the box.
Here are some photos. The outer-most ring in these photos is a "goof trim ring" that we needed since the holes from our cans were just a hair bigger than the outer ring of these lights. Without the extra trim ring you wouldn't see as much of a shadow around the light. We won't need those in the kitchen, so the lights will look a bit smaller in there.
In this image you can see how the bulb is slightly recessed into the fixture.
