Can my hubitat hub work without being connected to router

Correct, as long as you do not set up and Port Forwarding (on the router) that points back to the Hubitat hub, no one will be able to directly access the hub from the Internet.

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I would like to second this question.

Reading through this thread and the replies you’ve received, it feels like there’s a bit of missing information that would help provide the answers you need to setup the hub in a manner consistent with your intended use case.

But FWIW without any additional clarification from OP, @johnjoe_30 it feels like you are mixing up two (or three) general functions of the hub.

The hub can run z-wave and zigbee networks, with automations already programmed into the hub, and doesn’t have to be plugged into anything but power to accomplish those tasks.

If you want to access the hub’s admin functions to add/remove devices, edit automations or other basic stuff, then the hub will need a LAN connection and a device that functions as a DHCP server. An NTP server would also be needed unless you don’t care at all whether the hub is keeping correct time. You could also get local dashboard access with a LAN-only connection.

If you want any integrations with cloud-connected services, or access to dashboards away from home, or to use the mobile app for geofencing, or you’re unable to provide a local NTP server and need the hub to keep accurate time for your automations, then you’d need a connection to the WAN/internet.

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Hi what is an NTP server and how would i set it up?

What is NTPD?

NTP stands for Network Time Protocol. A NTPD would be a NTP Daemon, or a service that provides NTP based time to a client machine (like the Hubitat hub.)

@johnjoe_30 - please explain what your goals and requirements are. It is a little confusing as to what you're trying to accomplish.

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Starting to understand a bit more now!!
So once I've registered the hub my name and email address, set up automations I can unplug the ethernet cable from the router and the automations I have set will run with the Hubitat hub just powered on?
If I want to change any automations, download and setup drivers or devices i have to plug the cable back into the router?
A question I have is quite a lot of my automations are timed for certain parts of the day, so if I unplug the ethernet cable from the router how would the time refresh or stay upto date? I have read some comments about NTP server setup! Not sure what that it is or how to go about setting it up.
I would like to disconnect my ethernet cable when I have to and only reconnect when updating automations so and so forth

When I looked at getting the Hubitat hub, I did what I though was some homework and thought the Hubitat hub was totally free from Internet and router's except for setting up the hub.
I've come from Samsung smartthings platform which was cloud based and something I wanted to get away from.
Hubitat hub seems the ideal solution. I thought the hub didn't need to be attached to the router at all for the phone app to work or the user interface on a desktop computer.
I guess I'm learning this new product to me and struggling a bit.

Hi how do I set that up ?

Yes, but as mentioned above, the hub’s clock will drift, and time-based automations won’t work right.

Yes again. At least with a LAN connection, possibly internet (eg if you’re downloading a hub platform update, which comes from the Hubitat cloud and can only download directly to the hub).

NTP is a very well documented service so I would suggest reading up on that elsewhere then asking additional questions here based on that.

Again, why? :slightly_smiling_face:

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Most of us came from SmartThings. I think you're making this a little more complicated than it needs to be.

The Hubitat Hub must have its Ethernet cable plugged into your home network (aka LAN) in order for it to function reliable over long timeframes. The hub needs to be able to get it's time from an NTP server, usually a NTP server out on the Internet. Also, for any sort of user interface capability, the hub must be connected to a local area network.

In no way does the hub rely on the Internet or any Cloud Servers to run its automations. This is the exact opposite of SmartThings. As long as all of your devices are directly connected to your Hubitat hub via Z-Wave, ZigBee, or LAN, the automations will function properly.

If you want to use a Dashboard to monitor and control the hub's devices, the hub must be attached to your LAN to allow PCs and mobile devices a means to communicate to the hub.

If you want to use Amazon Alexa or Google Home (both cloud services), your hub must be connected to the LAN and be able to communicate to the Internet.

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Lol

Correct. This was answered earlier in the thread already.

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Brilliant thank you for clearing that up.
So just to get it into my thick skull, all the automations will work via the hub if the ethernet cable is is unplugged?

It depends on what devices those automations use...and for how long the cable has been unplugged.

If the device is a Sonos speaker that you want to send a Text To Speech message to, it will need the Ethernet cable plugged in (and access to the Internet to perform the TTS conversion using Amazon Poly AWS service :wink: )

If the hub is unplugged from the network for weeks at a time, there is a good chance the clock will drift and any automation that depends on date/time will no longer run at the correct time. Also, if the hub loses power, and it does not have an Ethernet connection, the time will be wrong immediately after power is restored.

While the hub can be used without an Internet connection, it really does require at least a local network connection to function properly (if any date/time based automations are used.) And without an Internet connection, one would need to run a NTP server on their local LAN, and configure the hub to use that always on NTP server to retrieve the current date/time information. All User Interfaces and admin tasks require a LAN connection to the hub as well.

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Not sure I would put it that way. Nothing is perfectly safe from intrusion as long as it’s connected to the internet (or connected to a unit router, which is connected to the internet).

However I would say that Hubitat is as safe as anything else in your LAN that contains personal and/or valuable information, assuming you follow standard information security practices and don’t take unwarranted risks like port forwarding to your hub like @ogiewon mentioned.

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It sounds like you’re primarily concerned about your personal data security/privacy.

If the hub is going to be used at a location that has a LAN, a router, and an internet connection, then I would suggest using the hub as most people do, ie keep it connected to your router and even allow it to access the internet.

Some people decline to use any of Hubitat’s cloud services, and don’t care whether their hub can interact with other devices that require internet connectivity (like Alexa for example) or even take the additional step of blocking the hub’s ability to access the internet in their router settings. That would be a couple extra steps to even further reduce your hub’s exposure to the cloud.

But the only reason I might personally keep the hub disconnected from a LAN at all times would be if I were planning to use it somewhere without any network local infrastructure or internet connection.

Edit: this is why we keep asking why you want to unplug your hub, btw. The underlying reason matters.

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Hi Mark, not sure what you mean by underlying reason?

Thank you

I think he means - why do you want to not leave your Hubitat hub plugged into your router all the time?

I would guess that >99% of us do.

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Thanks