C7 S2 Fails?

I've got some Aeotec 7 range extenders and Inovelli Red dimmers (on the most recent firmware!) and even with doing a COMPLETE zwave reset (because my C7 zwave still gets confused if you look at it funny) I cannot seem to add either device on S2.

When I do get past initializing (and that's only ~70% of the time, still a bunch of Initialization failing/timeout/whatever ghost devices/reset zwave/why is this not more stable...) and get to the list of 4 protocols with S2 unchecked, I check S2. Typically the device will appear in the device list, and I can control it, but the zwave radio status shows security as "None" for both devices.

I was under the impression that all of the S2 issues should magically have gone away with the C7 firmware fixes, but I cannot shake the feeling that my hub is broken still. Is this expected user experience? What am I doing wrong here? I'd assume that from a clean zwave reset there should be 0 issues adding a device like a range extender...

I'm fully prepared to reset my radio as much as needed to get to the bottom of this, but the number of WTF issues piling up on top of my C7 is really getting frustrating.

I paired my Aeotec 7 repeaters unencrypted and my Ring Extender repeaters S2 encrypted (required) and both work fine.

Why is everyone pairing their devices via S2? I mean I get it for locks/keypads etc but lights? Repeaters? Is there some advantage to this?

Also boring question (apologies) did you try to pair them closer to the hub at first?

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Why is everyone pairing their devices via S2?

It was my understanding that if a device is part of the mesh route back to the hub, it needed to support the highest level of auth you wanted the mesh to support. If I can send my S2 devices through an S0 intermediary with no issues, I guess that eliminates the need to use the higher security protocol. Buuuuuuut you should probably mark it as either unstable or unsupported if it's either.

And I do all of the initial pairing about 5 feet from the hub as that's the closest outlet :slight_smile: I've had good luck with the mesh repairing itself overnight if I add right next to it and then install it across the house where it belongs.

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If S2 is unchecked, then it doesn't exist. As far as I can tell, the way Hubitat built this feature has the hub listening to the Device and displaying the options that the DEVICE is saying it has. I don't think clicking them ON will work.

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Is this true? I thought that any repeater can repeat any type of frame S2 or otherwise?

ummm.. No.

ZWave is backwards compatible.

There are individual manufacturers that have managed to mess it up, but for the most part, Series 500 and 700 modules are able to route/pass along any packet

If you have a lot of series 100 and 300 modules in your devices, there's a slightly larger opportunity to have a path problem but it's a little ways out there from a practical standpoint.

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That's great news, I'm glad I don't have to maintain the mesh at a particular level.

I'm still concerned that 2 different manufacturers claim to have S2 support on their devices, and I have been unable to get my C7 to recognize either of them.

I have both, connected to a C-7. The Inovelli Red dimmer found a 'better' spot in my home and because I'm using 3 Hubs, one for physical areas of my house, that dimmer is now on a C-4 where it's unsecured. I can't SHOW you I have a success with that anymore. But I can show the Repeater 7:

OH.. I have an unopened Red Dimmer sitting here that I bought during their sale a week or so ago... do you believe me or should I open this one up and Include it as proof?

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None what so ever...


I agree.. repeaters are a no, BUT it was a new C-7 and I wanted to see it work. :smiley: So, maybe one reason LOL

In other words, New C-7, New Aeon Repeater 7.. MUST PLAY I don't remember doing anything really. Certainly nothing special.. other than finding the code on the paper that fell to the floor. :smiley:

I don't know why I even have it.. the ONLY thing that is using it is a battery device that seems always to be 'away'.

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Here's what Mike Maxwell provided on this:

From C-7 and S0

OH.. I have an unopened Red Dimmer sitting here that I bought during their sale a week or so ago... do you believe me or should I open this one up and Include it as proof?

Dude, I'm not arguing what you are or are not able to do. You've got multiple generations of hubs, I have whatever the most recent thing Hubitat sold me at whatever the most recent level of software support is. I've got the same dimmers in the same retail boxes man - I've got multiple switches with different levels of firmware for troubleshooting. I just want my stuff to work.

What steps did you do to pair successfully? I'm happy to replicate them right now, because again, I just want this to work.

Same here.. which is why I'm asking...

My thinking is, someone saying "it works for me" can ADD to frustration, not help. BUT I'm saying if it would help. I'll help. :slight_smile:


Here's what Mike Maxwell provided on this

I am intermittently getting this prompt when attempting to add devices. Regardless of the options clicked, my devices end up in the zwave settings menu with Security: None.

Am I adding it wrong, or do I need to do something else after the fact?

In the screenshot below, the Ring Range Extender 2 (device 0x08) is paired securely only because that's the only way it will report power fail. It's in a GFI socket in our garage that trips sometimes when it rains, and our freezer is plugged into the GFI socket, so we are alerted when the GFI trips. Devices 0x09 and 0x0A are Aeotec Range Extender 7 devices, and are next to the Front Door and Back Door (devices 0x07 and 0x06) Schlage BE469ZP locks to make them reliable.

The only way I was able to get any S2 devices to pair was to have the HE within a foot of the devices. Our Zooz ZEN16 (controlling patio fireplace LED controller) was so slow (several seconds per operation) when paired securely that I took out the secure pairing, otherwise the LED controller, which requires that it be turned on, then off, then on, quickly within a second or two in order to place it in a cycling color mode, couldn't be controlled.

Z-Wave Details screenshot

Other than needing the Ring Range Extender 2 to be paired securely in order to report power fail, the only secure pairing I care about is the lock pairing.


Just wanted to mention that I love using the extender as an outlet monitor as well. That's smart!

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While in general I agree that there is little to no value for having a repeater securely included, I do know of a couple exceptions:

  • Ring Alarm Range Extender (Gen 2) - This unit ceases to function if not enrolled securely.

  • Aeotec Range Extender 7 - This unit appears to prohibit firmware updates if not enrolled securely.

You can work around the AE7 issue by excluding and re-including, but that can be a bit of a problem if you have routes through it.


Not true. The Ring Range Extender 2 won't report power fail status unless it is paired securely. Confirmed by testing of my Ring Range Extender 2. See above screenshot.

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Another way to say it...

There are no specific protocol benefits from having a repeater device paired securely. There may be instances where there are device specific benefits to having things paired securely, though.


My personal security rules have become:

  1. Only use security if required by the device for a feature I need, or for a lock
  2. If I need security on an S2 device and S2 Class 0 Unauthenticated is availalble I use that so I don't have to find/remember the stupid code :slight_smile: