I'm well on with a transfer of my devices from a Vera hub but run into problems with range between the C7 hub and Z wave devices generally.
The Vera Edge I am replacing was able to reach to a couple of nearby outbuildings with the appropriate positioning of the hub but I appear to be getting nothing to or from devices that have already been included and seemed to work well when nearby the hub.
I've tried adding Plus switches to assist but can't reach at all anything outside the immediate vicinity,
This Hub number 2 and meshed with another one that is at the far end of the main house.
Any possible solutions?
Check out this thread for options to improve the HE hub's Z-Wave antenna. This would void the warranty, of course. However, as you'll see in the thread, many users really like the results. @lewis.heidrick is the SME on this modification.
You've condensed your issue really nicely.. but there's one step that maybe needs more detail...
Adding repeaters doesn't do anything in and of itself. Mostly that's because everything's a router except battery devices and therefore there seems to be an assumption that everything already got the route table during Include.
The problem device, Included close to the Hub, got a sliver of a route table (each end device has a limited amount of memory for a limited number of route slots and save only the small portion offered by the hub.) When you moved the device, it's entirely possible that NONE of the hops defined in the saved route table are reachable. Thus, the hub tries to reach the device using the route table it built and distributed, and can't reach the device, and the Device, wanting to talk to the hub, can't reach any device to hop through.
I'd suggest you do a specific ZWave Repair on the one device you think is going to reach the device in it's final location. That will cause the repeater to send out a "who can hear this" and get back a list of devices. Your distant, moved device will hopefully hear that and say "Me, I can hear you" and the result will be the repeater will tell the Hub that it can reach your lost device. THEN you can do a repair on your distant (lost) device and the hub will know how to reach it. (Routing in ZWave is source routed, meaning the source includes the route path in each connection. Replies follow the path back.)
Looks like you've got some great suggestions. When comparing the range of different hubs, the best test is to compare one hub and one device at the time (E.G. put one device on Vera, then exclude and put that device on Hubitat Elevation), otherwise comparing the range of an established mesh, to a mesh in development, is like comparing apples and oranges.
Yeah, really appreciate the suggestions.
Regretfully moving a device closer to the hub to do a repair (couldn't reach it at first) did get to be able to control it but the hub needed to be in the garden!
The range seems far less than Vera which for me may mean I have to stay with Vera for the devices the C7 can't reach.
The aerial mod looks a bit challenging - but I can solder - just seems a bit poor it's necessary at all? Surely Z wave range is pretty important factor in such a device....
Really disappointing as everything else was going well, (a couple of frustrating experiences with Fibraro 223 which I intend to switch to Aeotec Dual nano) ) and this was a second hub to improve connectivity in meshed mode (tried without too).
Not sure which way to go.
That's nowhere close to what I suggested. You said: "tried adding Plus switches to assist..." and I interpreted that to mean: You added a routing device, but didn't 'explain' to the mesh what you intended. IF, big IF... that added Plus switch can reach the distant outbuilding, then you are 5 mins away from your goal. Two individual ZWave Repairs will fix it. Of course if that new repeater can't reach either, then you'll need a plan b.
Plan B might include the Antenna mod. It's not for the timid. It requires precision soldering of very tiny wires and skillful drilling.
Plan B might include a hub dedicated to the outbuildings then interconnected with Hub Mesh (or, under specific circumstances, HubConect.)
I think what's missed by a lot of people transitioning from Old favorite to New favorite is that a Hubitat Hub is a lot more powerful in other ways. Your old Vera isn't a 700 series chip. Thus the radio range is not a valid comparison. The limitations (during certification) may have been a compromise we're uninformed about as Customers.
Your Vera cannot do ZWave LR. (Hubitat is capable when products become available.) ZWave LR is EXACTLY what you need for your Outbuildings. It's what it was developed to answer, I imagine. Plan b might include waiting for ZWave LR.
Are you thinking that a second hub may help strengthen the Z-Wave mesh of a different hub? If I understood that correctly, then that could be a problem, as Hub Mesh ties devices from one hub to another, to form a mesh of hubs, but a secondary hub will not help strengthen other mesh networks such as Z-Wave, Zigbee or Wi-Fi.
Hi - and massive thanks for the detailed advice - definitely appreciated.
I didn't explain particularly well as I was running around including / excluding stuff to identify what might be possible. I have tried selective repairs on the closest target switch (Fibraro 223 - not the easiest Hubitat integration in itself and I think one of the relays stuck closed so it's going to be replaced by an Aeotec dual nano now anyway....) BUT it is still out of range even with a Z Wave Plus series socket on route. So even with an extra hop it's looking a lot like my outbuilding is staying out of range unless we can come up with another plan.
I think I am now resigned to using the old Vera to service the outbuildings and use the 2 x C7's for the main house until a Z Wave LR repeater appears on the market. That's not ideal as it's 2 unconnected interfaces but I guess it divides up logically.
Generally my impressions of the C7 remain very favourable. It's got a couple of twitchy driver options (Fibraro 223 - I tried the bespoke driver discussed in another thread here ) but otherwise it's far superior to the Vera and the C7 is mostly a real pleasure to use. Device compatibility (eg Doorbell 6 and Energy meter) is excellent. So I definitely appreciate what we have here - it's just a bit disadvantaged by a reduced Z Wave range which in my use case is a problem.
Wonder when Z Wave LR devices will really start appearing?
bobbyD - yes mesh does not help here. My hope was that if I had a device(s) that struggled to connect they might operate via the other meshed hub. I can't get wither hub to reach the target Z Wave devices so have separated them which in turn means I have 2 interfaces to manage.
I have 4 Hubitat hubs interconnected so you do have room to grow
I have a pair of C5 and a pair of C7. I have an "upstairs hub", a "downstairs hub", a "front hub" and then a zero radio hub I call "coordinator" since I have all the Dashboard, Alexa, Google Home, weather and other Internet Facing functions on it.
I also have a 5th Hubitat C-7 hub that is used for development.
Hi Lewis.
That's a really kind offer thank you. I think if I wasn't in the UK I wouldn't hesitate to take you up on that but shipping & customs might get a bit difficult.
A plan B is being considered where I run ethernet between the buildings and then just have a small distance for Z Wave to reach the final building - less than 10 metres.
Thanks and I may yet look into shipping and accept your offer if I can't work plan B sufficiently effectively.
Are you familiar with the expected range and optimal mounting position for a C7? The second outbuilding (being supplied an ethernet feed) has a steel roof so I don't want to block the radio signal getting to the next building 10m away.
And just to conclude this thread -
My solution was to add an (unmeshed) additional hub which is accessible by TP Powerline adapters which after a good deal of careful positioning seem to be reliable and the hub operates without any pauses or drops.
Not great having 2 points of administration but with a dashboard on a browser page it's OK.
You said: "tried adding Plus switches to assist..." and I interpreted that to mean: You added a routing device, but didn't 'explain' to the mesh what you intended. 
IF, big IF... that added Plus switch can reach the distant outbuilding, then you are 5 mins away from your goal. Two individual ZWave Repairs will fix it. Of course if that new repeater can't reach either, then you'll need a plan b. 
I think if I wasn't in the UK I wouldn't hesitate to take you up on that but shipping & customs might get a bit difficult.
