I am having more and more customers asking me for RadioRa3 integration as more and more are doing the upgrade. I have started looking at HA and am guessing I will need to switch. Just wanted to check in before I start the Hubitat to HA.
Lutron has declined to allow us access to what we would need to support RadioRA3. Consequently, we have no plans to support it.
It really does blow as Hubitat's RadioRA 2 integration is better than Home Assistant's. I'd upgrade to RA3 if I could.
In any case, here's an existing thread that's had some recent activity.
Thanks for the update and info. Interesting that Lutron is gatekeeping access.
Not really. Companies like that tend to keep stuff proprietary because they think they can sell more units. Eventually they’ll realize they’re hamstringing themselves. Sony is a good example of this process.
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We will be attending CES this year, we can try again. Last year they said that they were working with the high end guys (C4, Crestron ect) first, so we got brushed off.
Don’t hold your breath though,
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Yeah, one of my clients is a crestron dealer (manufacturers rep). One of the techs was telling me they have the leap integration on crestron already...
It keeps them from selling more stuff. I'd buy a processor tomorrow and a few new devices.
Old RadioRA 2 required paid training to get 2nd level access to software. New RadioRA 3 requires free online training to get full access. So they've loosened and cheapened software access.
At the same time they've kept access to 3rd party control systems close to the vest. There were a lot of small time developers that built Telnet apps for RA2. They've been closed off. Except that LEAP has been reverse engineered (easiest user access via Home Assistant or Homebridge) for those who are willing to deal with that. Bringing all the potential issues along with it.
One would think Lutron would look at Signify and see how creating open access, from high end to low end and in between, is beneficial to moving product.
I think it is probably the best lighting option out there. But I won't buy it because it is too closed/proprietary.
Do they care? Probably not. But all I can do is vote with my wallet.
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Blockquote Not really. Companies like that tend to keep stuff proprietary because they think they can sell more units. Eventually they’ll realize they’re hamstringing themselves. Sony is a good example of this process.
Lutron generally doesn't think that way. Hubitat doesn't compete with any of the RadioRa products and is just an add on. They, arguably, might sell more systems if they had compatibility. Lutron has a ton of integration partners.
I guess it depends what exactly you’re referring to. But as @bill.d explained, they do have a long history of gatekeeping access to several of their product lines, it just wasn’t with a proprietary integration protocol for the most part.
That seems to be one of their current strategies, though.
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Being realistic: Hubitat doesn't matter to Lutron at all. First of all, we have maybe 6 or 8 RadioRA2 users, and 3 or 4 who've asked about RA3. So even for us, it's really not a big deal in terms of overall impact. It would be a stretch for us to justify the development effort for so few customers. We justified it for Hubitat because one of the founders' homes was full of Lutron RadioRA, later upgraded to RadioRA2.
Lutron has every reason under the sun to protect their brand. One thing you learn from their RA2 training is how focused they are on the fact that Lutron stuff is rock solid, that's one of its key selling points, and strategically, unlike Control4, Lutron installers don't go back to the home once the system is turned over to the customer. Now add into that picture what goes on here in this community, and ask yourself how those sorts of problems fit Lutron rock solid reputation? It's not that Hubitat is unreliable per se, but our users are not trained installers, and rock solid is not a term that springs to mind about Hubitat installations. Those are sweeping generalizations, but if you were sitting in the decision chair at Lutron, is making RA3 work with Hubitat any sort of priority? More like a gnat to be swatted away.
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Thanks for sharing. I am really surprised the RA2 user count is so low. I have many customers who are using RA2 which we use Hubitat as solution for the lack of logic functions in native RA. You are 100% correct that Lutron protects their brand and is rock solid. What's interesting is they opened RA3 to homeowners so anyone can install it. You don't need a dealer. A higher end DIY system when people outgrow Caseta. If Lutron is willing to work with/integrate with a small company like AVA, I am surprised they wouldn't work with you.
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Amazed it is that low. I would have anticipated something like 1% of total hubs sold would be to a customer with a RadioRA2 setup.
I don't know what the actual number is. My guess is just based on how many have communicated with us about it. There is a very small intersection between DIYers and RadioRA2 customers.
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That makes sense.
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Wear tuxes.
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I guess you're not collecting such information (I'm one of those people who never reads the terms and conditions).
I certainly would not object to HE collecting information on what devices, drivers and apps I'm using in order to more accurately decide what people are and aren't using, and what areas to invest development time in. Of course, that wouldn't tell you anything about interest in something HE doesn't currently support, but given such an option to provide that data, I would opt-in.
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LEAP is also used by the Caséta non-pro smart bridge, now called smart hub. There's been more than one frustrated Hubitat user not knowing the incompatibility of the non-pro bridge/hub.
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Amazing the crossover number is that small. In my case, RadioRA2 is what drove me to Hubitat in the first place - I had a house full of it (and L2 access after taking the class in PA), and wanted to be able to control it all in ways that Lutron couldn't.
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