Another new to Hubitat and having regrets

With regard to the dashboard woes....Hubitats own dashboard is pretty awful (IMHO). It's just not user friendly in the slightest. Thankfully there are very good alternatives that look better and are far more intuitive to use. The alternatives are so good that I wouldn't give up on Hubitat based on the built in dashboard.

My favourite currently is HD+ (Android/Fire only). It can run locally and the support from the developer @jpage4500 is fantastic. For multi platform (iOS, MacOS, Windows, Web) with a consistent look across all Hubivue is also very good. If you don't mind the dashboard using the web, then there's not much that SharpTools won't do - again superb support from the team there (Josh and James)

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The ikea stuff is very non-standard and well documented. I miss the motion sensors mostly, they were very cheap, and weatherproof.

But like everything, it's just going to be a learning curve. Don't get frustrated. I know it's easy, we've all been there.

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There have been issues with zigbee on the C8 but I believe, none of my zigbee devices are connected to my C8 so cannot confirm, a lot of these issues have been/are being resolved.

HE has never supported 433MHz kit directly but there are work rounds out there from people on this community.
With reference to LWRF kit I have Gen1 dimmers and outlets working locally to my LWRF hub via an RPi. The process for this has been documented in a thread here somewhere.
As for Gen2 I know people have asked questions about it on here but whether they got it working or not I don't know.

There is an inbuild app called 'Thermostat Schedulers'. Whether this is fit for purpose for you I don't know. Click on 'Add Built in App' at the top of the app page. It will appear in the list there.
Maybe have a look at it and see if it is fit for purpose for you.
I have used webCoRE with one piston that sets a global variable to set the heating set point at various times of the day.
This variable is then used in one piston to set the Thermostat.
This can also be done in RM.

As for Tasmota, I have none of these so cannot suggest anything I'm afraid.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
As said above, it is a learning curve................

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I'm the author of his driver so you can consider this an "expert" opinion.

To be able to display individual switches for Tasmota relays you must select the option to Create Child Devices. It will create N devices under the parent device and then you can add those to the dashboard and control them individually.

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An update.

Things have gone from bad to worse. Now my working Zigbee switches have just disappeared - they're still showing as 'online' in the device status, but pressing any button does absolutely nothing.

And as for the dashboard, HD+ appears to be Android only and the very last thing I'm going to do is set up a dashboard by tapping repeatedly on a screen. Hubivue is unusable as it doesn't appear have a web front end (needed for my Linux desktop) - that and there aren't any installation instructions on their website.

Now I've had a play with the rules engine... could it be any harder? Consider the rule:

Periodic using this Cron string: * * * * * ? *
Select Actions to Run (and Create and Manage Conditions and Local Variables)
Add 1 to CNT test
IF (Variable CNT test(54) >= 59(F)[FALSE]) THEN
Set CNT test to -1
END-IF

If I want to change the '59' to '119', it's 3 mouse clicks, 3 keystrokes and 7 different web pages. Coming from HomeSeer where the same edit would be 3 clicks and 1 web page, isn't that a little over the top? Why can't I just edit the text?

I've really been trying to give the device a fair crack of the whip, but so far everything I've tried either isn't supported, stops working or relies on a work-around.

But... Here's the kicker, I'm not giving up yet. Right now I'm still at the "It must be me" stage. So for now, any more help/advice would be gratefully received.

Nicholas.

The opening statement on the hubivue topic mentions it supports browser-based access. Will that not work on Ubuntu? (Maybe the fact it is an app in the browser could be the issue?)

Please make 100% certain you have the latest firmware. The C8 has had a rough go with Zigbee and the folks at Hubitat are working out the kinks.

Check out Actiontiles. It may provide the web based dashboard front end you are looking for.

First thing I would suggest is remember that Hubiat like most HA systems is a Event triggered solution. Try to think about how to leverage that instead of using a time based repeat function. This is bad and will cause resource issues on the hub eventually. Honestly beyond that i can't tell what you are really trying to do with that rule.

There are some apps that will make using the hub allot easier then RM. Room Lighting is a good example as well as Button controller depending on what you are doing. Explore all of the built in apps as each has their strengths and weaknesses.

It isn't you. I think most would agree Hubitat takes a little getting use to, but once you do it isn't hard at all. I always advise folks to take it slow and easy and built up in complexity. When you get stumped ask allot of detailed questions here so folks can help. The community is one of the best things about this device.

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Frankly, these are on you...support (or lack thereof) for devices is available in HE's fully documented device compatibility list, which could be found by asking a question or searching here in the forum, or a regular Google search. You can't buy a product and then complain if it doesn't have a feature you wanted, if you didn't look to see if it had that feature before buying. Lesson learned...

HE does support a pretty amazing range of devices directly and via community drivers and integrations, so I think in the long run you will find it is a very flexible and extendable platform that can do just about anything you want. That flexibility and extendability are HE's key strengths, further enhanced by the many smart, experienced, and may I say obsessively helpful individuals in this forum (several of whom are already helping you now). I'll get out of their way... :slight_smile:

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According to the list of software, it's through a Chrome/Safari web app.

I opened the box yesterday and did an update immediately. I take your point about Zigbee being in need of some care, but I am very much of the opinion that I bought a finished product, not something to beta test.

Thank you. Will do.

It's pretty much irrelevant what I was trying to do - yes, it may not be efficient or the best way to do things, but what I did was write a simple action which used time, variables and actions - just so that I can understand how the system holds together.
However, having said that, I Googled for how to set a timer in Hubitat and what I did is pretty much what somebody on this forum said was the best way.
The fact stands, though, whether lighting, a timer or whatever, it took an inordinate number of clicks to change a value and whilst Hubitate was prepared to show me a textual representation of the rules, it wouldn't let me edit that text.

Yes, I do understand that, however that is exactly what I was not doing (or, at least, that was not my intention and I apologise if that's how it reads). My post was a bit of "These are the compromises I'm going to have to make" and "Why/how does it do that?"
However, if I were to be picky, I would point out that on the page Home Automation Features and Benefits | Hubitat Elevation Local Home Automation – HUBITAT, it clearly says "Brands that work with Hubitat ... Ikea". No caveat, no "some products", but "Ikea branded products work with Hubitat" (paraphrase). Sure, there is a "List of compatible devices", but it is far from "fully documented" because it doesn't include third party device support - and trying to find out whether device "ABC123" from an unknown manufacturer is supported or not isn't trivial. Even when you do find out that a device is supported, it's only when you get it installed that you find not all the features are available (I'm looking at you, Tuya TS004F). :slight_smile:

But, I'm pressing on...

Nicholas.

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Ah, cloud based. That's a no :frowning:

Nicholas.

It isn't as much as Zigbee needing care, but that implementation for the zigbee radio in the C8 is brand new. So there are growing pains with it. Apparently many of the problems that are occurring just weren't seen in testing even though they did beta test the devices. It is hard to test every combination of potential devices out there with their Zigbee device and then that is compounded by the fact some manufactures implement non standard stuff in their devices. That causes additional headaches.

I would argue that even though this is what someone said is the best way to create a timer and it may be, using a timer of any kind is likely to cause you performance problems and should be a last resort. You always need to remember that Hubitat is a all local Arm based system. Most other platforms lean on the cloud to deal with poorly written stuff and you would never know, where as here it will just kill your entire environment.

The number of clicks is likely directly related to the raw power of what you can do with RM or other built in tools in HE vs your old platform

. The lack of options would reduce the clicks, but doesn't mean it is better to have fewer clicks. I would strongly suggest you consider looking at the other built in apps for simpler functions. Most people resort to RM when the other simpler tools are not sufficient.

OK if you want it local then look at either learning the Hubitat Dashboards, or possibly getting a raspberry Pi and using Node-Red Dashboards.

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I don't want to get into a debate about this, but if the device has problems, their testing process clearly wasn't sufficient. I don't think you'll be able to persuade me otherwise.

So you're saying that I shouldn't expect to be able to use timers? How do I implement a central heating boost button without a timer? How do I do A, B and C x seconds after somebody leaves a room without a timer? How do I count how long a device has been turned on for? Timers are a pretty fundamental part of any automated system and to suggest that they shouldn't be used is a little bizarre.

However, I wasn't asking for comment about the functionality. As I have already said, it was a small test that let me see how rules, variables, timers and the dashboard all work - as such, it served its purpose.

Raw power? No, I don't think so. But even if it did, if that power comes at a cost of my time, then it's something I'd generally avoid.

Respectfully, I disagree. Not having to move from page to page to page would reduce the number of clicks.

If the end result is the same, then it is always better to have fewer clicks.

Then clearly I'm missing something. I wanted to test rules, variables, timers, the dashboard and actions in the easiest way possible.

How should I have done it?

Which was how my post started - I was trying to learn the Hubitat dashboard and every single comment told me to use something else.

I'm sorry, but I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who just don't get the attraction of the Raspberry Pi boards. As for NodeRed, I already use it. I was hoping to move to one platform that could do everything in one box.

Nicholas.

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In my honest opinion, that is a very limiting view. No single product has every possible solution. Almost any complex system (that is what home automation is) requires more than one product. Personally, I have Lutron hubs for lighting, Bond hub for fans, Hue hub for color light strips, HomeKit, HA, and I don't know what else.

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How do I implement a central heating boost button without a timer? How do I do A, B and C x seconds after somebody leaves a room without a timer? How do I count how long a device has been turned on for? Timers are a pretty fundamental part of any automated system and to suggest that they shouldn't be used is a little bizarre.

All the things you mentioned would generate an event. That event is the trigger of a rule. Use the wait a certain duration action as part of that rule's actions.

If you provided specific examples of what you're trying to do, someone could help convert it to a Hubitat rule.

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A difference in process between us - I took the time to look at the actual compatibility list when I was thinking of moving to HE, and I also searched and lurked here in the forum to be sure that that the specific devices that were "musts" for me were fully supported by HE or reliable community-developed code. I'm OCD enough to know that I wouldn't be happy if there were gaps in certain areas. I have devices I love and will not part with. :slight_smile:

I don't expect or want HE to try to include all the community & external apps/drivers/integrations in their official compatible device list. HE won't know if their level of functionality meets their standards, whether or not they may have negative affects on hub function/reliability over time, whether they will get ongoing maintenance in the future to maintain compatibility, if the code or the developer are going to be around a year (or even a month) from now, etc. Just not feasible for them to do that and would result in more finger-pointing and confusion. Not a rabbit hole I would want them to go down.

Maybe you woul be better off w/below...did you look into them in your searching? They claim to do pretty much everything, might even be able to cook a burger on it.

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Forgetting the devices (and like you, I have a mish-mash), my core system is currently HomeSeer, MQTT, Zigbee2MQTT, NodeRed, RFXCom/Ser2Net and Hue hubs. All of these (OK, with the exception of RFXCom/Ser2Net) could, in theory, be handled by Hubitat instead. That's what I meant by one box and I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

But that's awfully limiting and a very simplistic way of doing it - relying on a delay after a state change doesn't easily let you override that delay by some other action taking place - the actions then become much more complicated when you have to check whether certain conditions are met that could easily have been managed by a simple timer having been reset, for example.

I am capable of doing that myself. What I don't want to have to do is create overly complicated rules to meet my niche requirements. Timers make complicated automations much easier.

Me too.

Me too. And they are.

My problems are that my current HomeSeer configuration is complicated and without actually playing with Hubitat and asking questions here, I couldn't work out whether it would do what I wanted.

Once I had ruled out the "I clearly don't understand your requirements, but I'm quite happy to tell you you're doing it wrong" comments here, it is clear that Hubitat whilst being a powerful device, doesn't give me anything more than I already have. Which is a shame. But as I said, without actually having one in my hands, I was unable to determine this - forum posts and the Hubitat website weren't detailed or specific enough.

And neither do I. My comment was simply stating that another poster was incorrect.

I wouldn't (to be fair, I didn't get any further than seeing that they're cloud based before immediately ruling it out).

Nicholas.

Hi all,

Firstly, a huge thank you to those people who answered my questions so speedily and helpfully - I have never been on any other forum that has had such a great community response.

But... this thread is, as I have already commented, turning into a "I clearly don't understand your requirements, but I'm quite happy to tell you you're doing it wrong" conversation and I don't think that is helpful to anybody, so I do need to draw a line under it.

From playing with the box and from the responses I've received, it's clear to me that whilst Hubitat is a powerful platform, it doesn't give me anything more than I already have and, because my requirements are complicated, it isn't going to be helpful to me.

Note that I'm not having a go at Hubitat - it is clearly a powerful product, just that it's not the right fit for me.

So I will finish commenting here with another huge thank you to those forum members who gave fast, considered and helpful responses. Thank you.

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Am I reading this wrong or did this chap only have the hub like 24 hours ago and all these conclusions have been drawn in that time?
Sorry think I just went below the line.

Delays can be easily canceled. In create new action in the "Delay, Wait, Exit, or Comment" dropdown there is an action called Cancel Delayed Actions. The "some other thing taking place" is an event that can trigger it.

The whole system is event driven, which can take some time to wrap your head around.

Also... and this is the part that was hardest for me to grasp, but a rule triggering again does not create a separate instance of the rule. So you can effectively use the rule retriggering to cancel certain actions.

This is the rule I use for the guest bathroom lights.

image

The trigger is motion active. It waits for motion to become inactive and then waits another 1:40 and if there was still no motion dims the lights for 20 seconds and then if there is still no motion turns them off.

Every time this rule activates, a new instance is created and the waiting time period starts over. This is also why I don't usually use delays, I use "wait for event > elapsed time". I might be wrong about this, I have to look it up every time because I don't make rules very often, but I believe a delay will NOT cancel when the rule retriggers. So if I had "Turn off light :> delayed 2 minutes" it would turn off every 2 minutes from the time the rule triggers.

EDIT: Note this could easily be done in the Room Lighting app, but this rule does other stuff too depending on if a variable is true or false. The snippet I pasted is what happens most of the time.

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Or home assistant. Even though all my "z" devices are on hubitat, and all my logic in node-red, all my dashboards are on Home Assistant.

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