Hi, I've started a new thread on this as my previous queries are buried in a very long and no longer relevant thread.
Following advice here I purchased a USB stick so that I could exclude then re include my Fibaro devices with security set to None rather than S0. I managed this successfully after following the instructions on this forum and using the Silicon Labs Simplicity Suite Z Wave Tools software.
I have another 5 Fibaro devices to add. I won't get them all installed at the same time and don't want to continually have to include and then exclude the USB stick itself, each time I want to add a Fibaro device. On the other hand I don't want to end up with a ghost node. I have some power outlets with USB outlets on them - is it OK once I'm finished with the USB stick to leave it included on my Hubitat C7, disconnect it from my laptop and plug it back into the same outlet until it's needed again. I was thinking if it's kept included and in the same position, it wouldn't matter if another device routed through it.
The Aeon has a battery inside so it's on most of the time anyway.
I don't think secondary controllers have a routing function. The decade old meaning of "secondary controller" was similar to what we'd call a TV Remote. They were (usually) handheld devices with many buttons to create associations and turn on/off or dim.
I dunno I caught a UZB-7 routing a device which led me to the policy of never leaving a stick included and powered. I could have been mistaken it's been a while so I don't want to lead anyone astray. You can leave a stick plugged in any powered usb source I think - you don't need the PC Controller sw to maintain the connection.
I had a power only slot on an old usb hub on my desktop that I was using.
Is there any issue though from leaving it powered and included? My intention is to always leave it plugged in to the same USB power outlet, so it'll only ever move location when it's temporarily connected to my laptop to include a device that needs non secure inclusion forced. If it does happen to become a repeater where it's located surely that would be a bonus.
I've had a UZB-7 added as secondary to my Production C-7 for 6 months or more... basically since the day I got it. I don't have the PC Controller software running constantly. The UZB-7 sits an inch from a UZB-3 that is Zniffer flashed and another inch from a Nortek HUSBZB-1, which is an independent ZWave mesh.
I can't say I have noticed anything attention getting from this setup. The C-7 is 30ft away with 27 ZWave devices... so far. Looking at ZWave details, the device # does not appear in the route column (other than for itself.)
Unlike the Aeon that @johnwill1 uses, none of the other ZWave USB sticks I own have a battery. Both of my Aeon ZSticks do have a battery and just sit on my desk, right here between my kbd and monitor I don't proactively charge them but they seem to work every time I pick one of them up. These days I used them mostly to pre-exclude devices as a step before Including them to a new hub. In other words, I'll exclude it from Hub X then use the Aeon to exclude it again, then Include it to the new hub. If that fails, I have the Aeon handy to exclude again, then back to include for another try.
I use the Aeon's to join as a secondary, thus acquiring that Network's DB and then use Aeon's backup software to retain a copy. What that means relative to this topic is: I dunno what ZWave network the Aeon's are on a couple of days later. They sit on the desk, powered because of their battery. I guess what I'm trying to say is that with my casual ignoring of these secondary controllers, I'd expect to be the one person most likely to encounter a problem caused by included/powered secondaries.
The day I got my first Hubitat, I had a system of 4 ZWave controllers all on one mesh. Each secondary was there because it took 4 different products to create a functional system... back then (2014-2018) I've spent years with secondary controllers.... so you wouldn't have to, as they say
That is good to know and thank you for your Z-Wave service!
I almost want to plug my UZB-7 back in and leave it on for giggles to see if it happens again.. I am almost positive I saw a switch routing through it. It was a time where I was including/excluding a bunch of devices...
I also really like the Z-Sticks - the battery power is great for remote excludes/no security includes.
Thanks everyone. I'll go ahead and include it and leave it included for now. I was just trying to avoid the continual inclusion and exclusion of the stick each time I want to include a new Fibaro device that is determined to add itself with S0. If it causes an issue down the line I'll exclude it again once I'm further along with my system. For now I'm in no rush and I'm just adding new devices one at a time as I go.
Given it's not routing anything, you can leave it unplugged and in a drawer since its similar to an edge device. You won't have to re include it because once it's powered up it will reconnect to the mesh anyway (provided you didn't delete it). Just remember to not freak when you do a z-wave repair and it comes up failed (because it's not powered up). It will be fine in your drawer (also that way no one knocks it out of the usb outlet by accident and breaks the end off)
I have been trying to verify whether or not the UZB-7 or Z-Stick+ (500 series) can or cannot act as a repeater. I mean they are technically "powered" - maybe not the Z-Stick unless plugged in of course..
Not having much luck. I think this is would be a good thing to know as it might be possible to cause some mesh instability if true especially if left on over time.
The ZWave Alliance submission says that the Aeotec Z-Stick is: "Z-Wave library type: Bridge Controller" I haven't found that definition... yet.
However, "powered on" would mean that independent of it being a router, no fault will occur. It's got power, so it will respond... to a NOP for example, and everything else. If it IS routing, then powered on will mean it's ok too. Moving the secondary, meaning powered off then back on in a different socket, will mean it's not going to route during that outage.
I think the more critical question is what happens to the mesh if a secondary controller is 'gone' for days or weeks. Do they turn into orphans/ghosts and cause a mesh problem, or, because they are "Bridge Controllers" they don't do much. With a C-7, the secondary is being updated after adds and deletes. When the primary can't find the secondary for days, what impact is there?
For C-3's through C-5's the secondary is practically invisible to that SDK, so I don't think it will impact, and I haven't seen that, given the vast majority of my secondary experience is the 2 years or more before the C-7 was released.
Great point.. questions questions.... also given the potential C-7 stability issues I guess I am still erring on the side of excluding the stick when done working with it..
Agree... EXCEPT, I'm assuming I'm never done with it.
Totally agree with this!!!
The UZB-7 works as a repeater. I've had it show up in routes. I would expect the UZB3 (500 series) does as well, but I have no direct evidence.
Given that the Z-Stick+ has a battery, I would be surprised if it worked as a repeater.