Thought I'd reach out again to the jedi master Hubitat community. I have a friend who will be building a multi-million dollar home where money is no object. This obviously does not preclude the fact that the goal is still a solid value/price ratio ...and it just "works" and is "reliable" at the end of the day.
Now if we take a look at smart home automation...etc., my brain is seeing it broken down into these areas (if I'm missing other items, happy to learn more):
Networking
Security (Alarm, Cameras...etc)
Audio / Video (Multi-Room Audio + Home Theater)
Lights / Locks / Sensors / Shades
#1: In terms of networking, it seems like UniFi is the way to go. Are there other alternatives that I'm missing that are worth exploring?
#2: I'm still a little lost with this one and would love some advice. They're thinking Ring. Recommendations?
#3: I realize Hubitat is not the ideal option in the A/V space and understand that's not what it was meant for. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Control4/Savant/URC are the players in this space.
#4: Absolutely have loved using Hubitat for lights/locks/sensors.
My questions:
Would you segment the brand of system and have two - Have one handle A/V and the other handle the rest (Hubitat)?
Or would you look into doing one system like a Control4/Savant/URC?
So my bottom line ask and curiosity is this:
If you were put in the position of this homeowner (and I'm sure there are people that are already in this position) being the guru you are at home automation, how would you do it?
While I've done a lot of research on this, I'm still struggling a bit and appreciate the advice as always.
I would install a dedicated AV system using a professional installation company. A whole home AV system in a high-end home is not something you piece together with your friends.
How geeky is the owner? Setting up a Hubitat system can be quite demanding for a non-techie person. And a Hubitat system is not "fire and forget." My system, as do most, requires nearly constant maintenance.
In my opinion, Hubitat is not designed to manage an advanced home security system for a high-end home. I use my Hubitats to augment my security/AV/camera system, which requires nearly daily upkeep. But I enjoy that side of it.
And in the end, if I were to die or become incapacitated, my wife would have to pay someone to come in and scrap the entire system and install something that she could use and understand.
Prewiring for networking, cameras, alarm, etc. (reduce wireless where possible including a wired security system over something like Ring)
Take a look at https://www.josh.ai/ and talk to one of their installers. I don’t have any real experience with them, but I would definitely check that out as an option if I was building that kind of house.
The important part of networking is to have a central location for the cable modem/routers/switches, with multiple cables to every location. My house is only about 2200 sq ft, but has about 80 CAT5E jacks throughout the house, including many in the office, and a few up high for wireless access points. Planning is the name of the game.
Security should be hard-wired, for sensors, panels, etc. Camera systems should likewise be hardwired and local, not dependent on cloud services. Avoid Ring, Arlo, etc., since they are a lot of money for mediocre equipment. A good site to learn about cameras is ipcamtalk.com. Lots of good information there.
Agreed, A/V is not where Hubitat shines. There are plenty of players in this field, and most, if not all, are closed systems. My house came with an old Savant system, and I balked at paying $185/hr or so for "reprogramming" so I could add a new TV or Blu-Ray player, or to pay a minimum of $5k to upgrade my system to a newer version. I went the Roomie Remote route, which works well for me. However, as another has pointed out, like Hubitat, if your friend isn't a tech-type willing to put in the effort, it may be worth it to pay a professional integrator.
In a multi-million dollar home, I would invest in a Lutron Homeworks QS system. It is hard-wired, highly reliable, and can interface with Hubitat (i can attest to it working), but it's not cheap. It is the top-of-the-line as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with this! Ring is not the system you would want in a multi-million dollar home. A dedicated, monitored security system with hard-wired sensors and cameras would be appropriate.
Cameras:
With one high end home renovation that we did, we combined a dedicated DVR system (Lorex cameras+NVR) with a top of the line Ring Video Door Bell. It can be done.
Audio:
On that job (and on others), we have put in Sonos speakers (and non Sonos speakers driven by Sonos Amps). The clients love the Sonos app, and the sound is fabulous. Has worked flawlessly.)
Lights:
Lutron, without question.
Security:
On that job we put in a first rate DSC system, with an Envisalink board to link to Hubitat. It was very interesting to use all the DSC hardwired sensors in Hubitat through the Envisalink.
Networking:
As has been said before, Ubitquity is the way to go (with multi floor access points.
2 - Security should be completely separate from Home Automation. I'm a security installer and a smart home hobbyist/enthusiast. As someone who's been designing and installing security systems and CCTV for 35 years I'd recommend you keep them completely separate and as others have said, stay away from wireless and cloud solutions for the alarm. I do install wireless alarm systems with cloud functionality, however I'd never consider a wireless alarm for a new build. Besides if it's a multi-million dollar home, the intruder alarm would need to be installed to the applicable standards with dual path monitoring via a central station (I'm not familiar with the standards in the US - only the UK but imagine there are similarities) What would be helpful is to get an approved hard wired monitored system and ensure that it can be interfaced to the smart home system (this will be dependant on the installer and the control system used). This could be as simple as the installer providing interfaced outputs for status - arm, disarm, alarm active etc (the status of those connections can then be utilised to interface to lighting when entering/leaving or floodlighting the property when the alarm is activated). My Honeywell system (the specific model is not available in the US) is interfaced via mqtt, such that all devices on the system (door/window contacts, movement detectors) can be mirrored with virtual devices in the Hubitat hub. They are then used for motion lighting without the need for additional devices.
3 - For multi room audio Sonos is difficult to beat. I have the original Sonos Zone Players and they've been in use since 2006 and they're still working great. In a new build I'd hardwire network connections to Sonos Amps in each room but then use speakers as required to suit (in ceiling, in wall, architectural or floor standing)
For lighting. I've no experience of Lutron but if it were available in the UK I'd have installed it in my home long ago. The comments on this forum regarding how stable and bulletproof it is are testament to its quality.
Since money is no object, I would also suggest looking into the highest end Lutron whole-house systems like Homeworks. Then look into the integrations with AV and HVAC systems supported by Homeworks to further narrow down the choices for those components.
I also agree that security and life safety (i.e. fire alarm) systems should be installed by a qualified pro as a self-contained system with no dependence on any other systems for its core functions. Low voltage wiring for the system’s various sensors should be run while the house is under construction to make battery changes in the future unnecessary.
I think your friend should seek out an expert from a respected online home automation community and pay them a lot of money to live in-house for the first few years to manage the system
Just finished an extensive new-to-us house remodel in March, so...
We settled on Verizon FiOS with their Wi-Fi extender. It works, but I'm not sure (yet) that I'd recommend it. As someone else noted, centrally locating things is essential, and you can never have too many CAT jacks.
For security, pick one of the big players and have as much as possible hard-wired with multi-path monitoring. I've been an ADT customer for 40+ years and recommend them highly, although I'm disappointed that they've depreciated their lovely Pulse equipment and are now just rebranding Google and Ring. I have deliberately not interfaced HE and ADT, other than a couple of Z-Wave relays that allow HE to know the overall alarm mode (Home or Away).
Sonos is damn hard to beat, in both flexibility and control. I haven't done a ton (yet!) with HE control of it in our new house, but the Sonos phone app is easy and awesome. Make sure to put outlets and CAT jacks near the speaker locations. Oh, and it sounds good.
Lutron absolutely. We settled on RadioRa2 because I'd taken the classes and the Ra3 controllers didn't excite us and there wasn't anything Homeworks could do that Ra2 couldn't that we actually cared about. This is my second Ra2 house and I've had zero problems and zero maintenance between the two of 'em. HE/Lutron interface/control is flawless.
I am surprised that Crestron didn't come up for home theater. In Michigan, one of the mansions, we did had a $350k 12 seat home theater and lounge. One of his requirements is that they had karaoke parties.
Thank you for taking the time out to write out these responses - very helpful so far and has given me a lot to think about.
It seems to me that once someone wants to add an expensive AV solution into the mix, the major players (Savant…etc) have a real opportunity here - especially if the individual wants everything accessible in one dashboard/control point.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Hubitat could still play a role in this equation by being the “brain” of the house to perform all the home automation tasks - Lighting (Lutron), Shades, Locks, Sensors, Alarm (where Hubitat only sees the statuses, no control)…etc. I really like the agility and robust things you can do with Hubitat. I love the fact of how easily you can take disparate hardware and integrate it together.
Then you have the AV smart home system. It handles the AV components, and has the Lutron lighting controls integrated into its dashboard for the customer to access.
To answer the question, this customer isn’t tech savvy, HOWEVER he’s willing to pay for my time / support to do all the home automation in Hubitat. So I suppose it begs the question, Is he better off just going full blown home automation system and leaving Hubitat behind?
This AV piece is a bit of an annoyance because it has to be on a different smart home system. Then I think about the additional factor that people don’t want multiple apps or managing multiple systems.
I remain hopeful that throwing Hubitat into a high-end build for this guy is worth it, but will also come to terms if it’s not. It’s difficult for me to speculate on because it’s next to impossible to see these big players system capabilities because they’re closed off to us common folk. If these “other systems” can’t touch what Hubitat does well, and it’ll save the customer time, money, and headache in the long run…..that’s the value-add?
I have one more point of advice that I'd like to share based on my experience, but it's important.
When the electricians are in, have THEM install the Lutron switches (or whatever you pick).
When the Plumber is working, have HIM install the (Zigbee controlled) Water Shutoff valve.
etc...
With any smart switches make sure they don't peel the barcodes off switches when installing. That bar code is needed for easy inclusion and one electrician removed them on a project I was working on making my day really bad.
I agree with this! Ring is not the system you would want in a multi-million dollar home. A dedicated, monitored security system with hard-wired sensors and cameras would be appropriate.
