Hubitat: Train your engineers to be a little more customer friendly.
I understand the frustration on both the user and HE engineer side. Hubitat is supporting hundreds of devices and thousands of installations. Many problems are out Hubitat's control and with a small team, it's just not economically viable to figure out.
That being said, I'm disappointed in Hubitat's responses. If you find a user that is willing to spend serious time and money debugging what seems to be HE's fault, why not treat them nicely. Suggesting I should "try a z-wave repair" after posting Zniffer logs and analysis is simply just disrespectful after the time and energy spent trying to get to the bottom of the problem. Look at how Inovelli treats their customers for inspiration.
This is an opportunity lost and it's their loss. Many users here are highly paid and trained engineers that are obviously willing to give their support. How about treating us with respect and working on problems together to make this a better platform, instead of dismissing it as a "bad mesh"? I'm still an ally but you are losing me sloly.
Hubitat is not suitable for larger (50+ish Z-Wave devices) installations.
This is ok and with a $150 price tag should not be surprising. Larger installations increase the chance of strange mesh issues, routing errors, and timing stress of their hub implementation. Again this is ok but just tell me that I may run into problems at this point and that support doesn't cover this with a cheaper consumer focused hub. If you have time, please work with us larger installs and perhaps collect data to track down issues, but it's ok if you don't have the resources to do so.
I wouldn't necessarily say this. They do have installation with many more devices working just fine. I am on that border with 53 z-wave devices on a c7 and its working extremely well (though was a pain to setup). We can't judge things by what we see on the forum as they have mentioned that they have many other users not active on the forums with large installations running just fine.
That being said, I do think we need to really understand how the tech works. Especially when it comes to the mesh, repeaters, plus vs non plus, types of secure joining, power report and more. Some of these topics are more than what a typical user wants to learn but I feel like I need to understand it to diagnose a problem when it arises.
Its tuff because some of these issues are out of their hands, for example add 30 devices that all have power reporting turned on by default and then you may have slow mesh problems, or add a bunch of devices using s0 security and suffer the same fate.
And then there are some issues that they can fix, such as the c7 joining issue.
Really? Last I checked I have >70 zwave plus devices on my C-7 hub and it is working fine... Weird.
(I won't say it was pain free getting there, but still)
And I won't say that I never have multiple message issues/storms, but I will say they are intermittent, brief, and that they don't affect operation of my mesh in any meaningful way so I don't care enough to track it down.
This is a broad statement and I just don't think it's correct in its broadness. Your hub and mesh may be having problems, and I don't doubt those problems are real and painful. It still stands that many, many more people are not having those issues.
(LOL go to any forum for any car, even ones that are loved by their owners. If you read the threads, you will never, ever want to buy the car. It will sound like a piece of garbage. Why? People only post when something doesn't work. Not the other 100,000 miles when it ran perfectly.)
Just like driving through a red light, you will find lots of success stories, like your andecdote. However, the likelihood of things going wrong and requiring a lot of time and energy to fix goes up. HE simply doesn't have the time, tools, and tech to deal with these problems (C7 ZWave log has not much more info), so people start using Zniffers and ZWaveToolbox to debug their system.
You can rest your case all you want, but what you posted is simply an opinion - not truth.
My opinion is opposite. Since my network works fine, I think it is quite well suited for larger installations. Or at least the only larger installation I care about - my own.
But anyway, as I said these are all opinions, not facts. Everyone is entitled to theirs, of course.
In any case, I've said all I can say on this topic without getting redundant and rehashing what's already been said. So I'll quit polluting this thread. Good luck all!
Just ignore this thread if you don't experience Z-Wave lags or storms. I'm just interested in figuring this out, not hearing random "It works for me!".
Some more data points if other people are tracking down similar issues. One of the best ways to start a Z-Wave storm is the stock Google Home App. Another way is Rule Machine, but that depends on how many devices are affected by an Action.
My guess is the Hubitat Z-Wave queue implementation is incorrectly implemented for large Z-Wave networks. It doesn't seem to wait/throttle appropriately and keeps multiple identical commands in the queue when the mesh takes longer than instant to ack.
This is the log after just hitting Update in the Google Home app. Devices are a mix of HomeSeer WD200, Jasco/GE, and one or two Levitons.
dev:6 2020-08-06 13:14:47.450 info Workshop Light is off [digital]
dev:6 2020-08-06 13:14:47.404 info Workshop Light is 99% [digital]
dev:6 2020-08-06 13:14:47.400 info Workshop Light is off [digital]
dev:2 2020-08-06 13:14:47.129 info Upstairs Light is off [digital]
dev:24 2020-08-06 13:14:47.057 info Upstairs Bath Light is off [digital]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:44.271 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:43.879 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:43.545 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:43.121 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:42.986 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:34 2020-08-06 13:14:42.891 info Storage Light is off [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:42.328 info Toilet Fan is on [physical]
dev:419 2020-08-06 13:14:41.864 info Toilet Light is at 1% [digital]
dev:419 2020-08-06 13:14:41.858 info Toilet Light is on [digital]
dev:34 2020-08-06 13:14:39.779 info Storage Light is off [physical]
dev:22 2020-08-06 13:14:39.618 info Toilet Fan is on [digital]
dev:34 2020-08-06 13:14:38.288 info Storage Light is off [digital]
dev:23 2020-08-06 13:14:37.218 info Purple Room Light is off [digital]
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:14:36.968 info Garage Flood Light Illuminance report: 250Lux
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:14:36.961 info Garage Flood Light Illuminance report: 250Lux
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:20.001 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:29 2020-08-06 13:14:19.822 info Kitchen Bar Light is off [digital]
dev:28 2020-08-06 13:14:19.581 info Kitchen Corner Light is off [physical]
dev:28 2020-08-06 13:14:19.550 info Kitchen Corner Light is off [physical]
dev:28 2020-08-06 13:14:19.462 info Kitchen Corner Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:19.354 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:19.277 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:19.254 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:19.228 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:19.194 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:19.185 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:19.162 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:19.085 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:19.068 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:18.963 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.847 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.791 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.739 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:18.712 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.582 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.521 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:18.380 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:29 2020-08-06 13:14:18.341 info Kitchen Bar Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:18.246 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:29 2020-08-06 13:14:18.152 info Kitchen Bar Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.063 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:18.004 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:17.924 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:29 2020-08-06 13:14:17.904 info Kitchen Bar Light is 31% [digital]
dev:29 2020-08-06 13:14:17.901 info Kitchen Bar Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:17.884 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:17.162 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:17.076 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:16.987 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:16.880 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:16.725 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:16.625 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:16.056 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:14.931 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:14.641 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:14.549 info Gratitude Light is off [physical]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.810 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:14 2020-08-06 13:14:13.710 info Gratitude Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.498 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:13.495 info Guest Room Light is 31% [digital]
dev:33 2020-08-06 13:14:13.491 info Guest Room Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.390 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.254 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.229 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:13.209 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:12.674 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:12.590 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:12.497 info Guest Entry Light is 52% [digital]
dev:32 2020-08-06 13:14:12.493 info Guest Entry Light is off [digital]
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:14:07.501 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:14:07.082 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:14:06.430 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:52.075 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:52.041 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:51.992 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:51.964 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:51.802 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:51.725 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:1154 2020-08-06 13:13:51.711 info Garage Flood Light was turned off
dev:5 2020-08-06 13:13:51.331 info Downstairs Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:51.139 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:51.065 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:50.761 info Closet Light is inactive
dev:5 2020-08-06 13:13:50.679 info Downstairs Light is off [digital]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:46.613 info Dinner Light is off [digital]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:46.143 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:45.624 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:45.563 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:45.491 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [physical]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:45.223 info Dinner Light is off [digital]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:44.944 info Dinner Light is off [digital]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:44.717 info Dinner Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:44.331 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:44.080 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:43.650 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:43.089 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:42.741 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:42.243 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:42.095 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:8 2020-08-06 13:13:41.819 info Downstairs Bath Sink Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:41.693 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:40.950 info Dinner Light is 99% [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:40.937 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:30 2020-08-06 13:13:40.931 info Dinner Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:40.799 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:40.733 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:40.545 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:40.374 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:40.234 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:40.201 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:40.182 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:40.138 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1508 2020-08-06 13:13:40.021 info Den Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1508 2020-08-06 13:13:40.017 info Den Light is on [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:39.867 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:39.701 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.369 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.352 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.318 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.306 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.217 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:39.148 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.981 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.958 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:38.909 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.821 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:38.592 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:38.419 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.150 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.071 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:38.024 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:37.998 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:37.987 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:37.529 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:37.501 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:37.437 info Bedroom Light is 5% [digital]
dev:15 2020-08-06 13:13:37.433 info Bedroom Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:37.410 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:37.370 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:37.334 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:37.305 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:20 2020-08-06 13:13:37.282 info Closet Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:37.180 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:37.156 info Bathtub Light is 20% [digital]
dev:1029 2020-08-06 13:13:37.145 info Bathtub Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:37.084 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:37.033 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:36.851 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:36.407 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:36.313 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:35.059 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:35.004 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.963 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.865 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.576 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.533 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:34.523 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:34.474 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:34.384 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:34.283 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.222 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:34.172 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:34.016 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:33.929 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:33.920 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:33.491 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:18 2020-08-06 13:13:33.487 info Bathroom Light is off [digital]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:32.965 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:32.835 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:31.448 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:31.415 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:31.078 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:30.891 info Basement Light is off [physical]
dev:558 2020-08-06 13:13:30.747 info Basement Light is off [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.699 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.666 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.304 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.299 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.186 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.180 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.103 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:30.094 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.951 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.945 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.730 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.725 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.674 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.640 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.552 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.542 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.463 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.424 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.301 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.268 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:29.029 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:28.982 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1314 2020-08-06 13:13:28.895 info Downstairs Bath Light was set to 92%
dev:1314 2020-08-06 13:13:28.815 info Downstairs Bath Light was turned off
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:28.520 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:28.508 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:28.485 info Baseline Door Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1506 2020-08-06 13:13:28.475 info Baseline Door Light is on [digital]
dev:1062 2020-08-06 13:13:28.421 info Balcony Light is off [digital]
dev:1062 2020-08-06 13:13:28.349 info Balcony Light is off [digital]
dev:1218 2020-08-06 13:13:28.260 info Basket Light is off
dev:1062 2020-08-06 13:13:28.211 info Balcony Light is 99% [digital]
dev:1062 2020-08-06 13:13:28.194 info Balcony Light is off [digital]
dev:1509 2020-08-06 13:13:28.110 info Arch Light is 89% [digital]
dev:1509 2020-08-06 13:13:28.090 info Arch Light is off [digital]
app:38 2020-08-06 13:13:26.415 info updated...
I can give the Zniffer logs too if anyone is interested.
I wonder if this is the same issue I've seen with every damn chime device out there?
I would set them up as a door chime and ever few times it would send the chime command 5 times to the devices for some strange reason.
I have the same issue with ever chime I've done it with (dome, aeotec, zooz). I should test it out on the C7 now and see if I still have the issue though.
Deleting the offending devices by unpairing factory resetting the device and rejoining fixed those multiple entries for me. I originally just rebooted and they went away for a while. Eventually they came back and removing the devices and rejoining stopped it. It was also doing it for a bunch like yours shows but the problem devices were my battery contact sensors. When I originally paired them, I don't think I left the battery out long enough and something just didn't go right with the pairing. Only after leaving the battery out for about 10 seconds did they actually join correctly.
This thread is interesting. I know Hubitat to have lots of issues. Some with Zwave, some with zigbee, some with the network stack, and some Security issues. I Wish I had spent more time in the community before buying the device.
The community takes criticism in a way similar to an OpenSource community. Basically say to many negative thing and you will get brigaded. How many threads start out with āFirst of all I love the product, itās so great but....ā this is conditioned behavior from the brigading.
On the flip side The community provides awesome support to others. I feel like even with my limited time here I contribute a lot.
Bruce and Mike can be very helpful, and very gruff. I know I have read more than a few post that can taken the wrong way(and they probably mean it that way some times)
And to look at the issues and read the forums it seems like while the Hubitat is a very powerful concept, the implementation feels hacked together. I sometimes get the impression that the reason some of these issues exist are not due to we need to spend time on other things, but we ādonāt have time to learn how that part actually works and we stole it off stackoverflow so it is what it isā
And to be fair I donāt expect a groovy programmer who is well versed in zigbee to be completely up on API security or mDNS or a ton of other things. But at some point you find the consultants who do and you fix the nagging problems.
This is my opinion of the state of the platform. And I am hopeful it gets better. Because I donāt want it to die off because I am too invested in it now.
And people will probably come here and defend Hubitat and thatās fine. But letās not sit around with our heads in the sand. There are issues, it can be improved, letās point it out and call it for what it is and hope that Bruce and team can keep working to make it better
Itās been mentioned a number of times to not judge the hub by the threads on the forums. They have a lot of users who arenāt active on the forums and people with issues usually reach out on the forums so it seems like nothing but problems occur in the hub.
However you will notice that a lot of the threads too have resolutions. A lot of the timeās itās some errant device causing a problem. And sometimes itās a HE bug that they actually fix in an update. Finding the fixes though are sometimes hard and take a while to figure out because there are some passionate people sometimes that love their device that could be the issue.
Iāve had issues myself. Iāve had my hub lock up and traced it down to some code I had in an app. Iāve also had lock issues that I resolved by relocating the hub and later on getting zwave repeaters Other than that my c4 was solid.
The C7 is a different Beast. My locks now work perfectly with it but the zwave join process seems to have issues that Iām sure they are working on.
Once you get it set up and stable though you will love it. It will just take some work and proper planning.
Unfortunately my fix is to replace some z-wave devices with zigbee, it seam to reduce the issue I have with they z-wave becoming locked. Still have a problem but less frequently
Yup there sure are. But there are also many "opinions" that are not necessarily "issues". And when the opinions are presented as facts of defect, that is where many of the arguments start. Even some of the things you call security "issues" aren't universally seen as such - just as an example (not to pick on you in particular - Security topics in general are polarizing as they are subjecting in that different people have different definitions of "good enough").
If people (and I don't mean you specifically here) argued their opinions as opinions - and not fact, there would probably be a lot less arguing.
Also keep in mind that almost no one that says there are "issues" (as if that is a fact) have seen the source code or can say what the "fix" is. Nor do they know what is being worked on internally. Nor do they know the internal roadmap of what is planned. So put the same value of the "on couch experts" as what you paid for their opinion...
I'm often critical of Hubitat - there are a number of things that I don't like about how they communicate issues (no sticky thread / easily findable official response for the number of C-7 issues users are seeing, for instance), report what is changed in an update, etc, etc. So I say my piece and move on - it is their company, and I'm not their boss.
I don't work for them so I don't "defend" them, except when people say things I know to be untrue. I do argue when I have different opinions of what "good" looks like / subjective positions are being presented as "fact" though.
I think some people just have unrealistic expectations of what a $129 consumer oriented hub can/can't do, and the resources that are available to fix/change some things at that price point. But that's my OPINION.
Yes there are some lacking features that are opinions. Like Https config options. Then there are things are facts. Like having the dashboard app installed allows the cloud control endpoint to control any device on the hub regardless the device being included in a dashboard or any dashboards being cloud enabled. While the likelihood of attack can be small any user who ever shares a link to a dashboard is opening up the potential for full device control.
Until you sit down and read through the forums. This really isnāt pointed as as something you shouldnāt do...Because who would share a dashboard with a guest or a contractor or anyone they donāt trust 100%
I have seen these exact zwave issues and have been told my mesh and devices are the problem. It has limited my ability to perform specific automations that require more than 2 zwave devices.
But to say the hub does other things well is not an excuse for these shortcomings, and I feel thatās what the community does best. Rather than hold them accountable and say hey this should be fixed you say āmine worksā and that they canāt be expected to solve all the problems and we want more features not fixes.
Bruce will pop in and tell me that a company that made all the right choices for me to buy the device, should be enough and that fixing my complaints isnāt the right choice to convince the next person to buy a device.
But I will say, itās enough that I donāt recommend them and I donāt plan on buying the C-7 less than a year later to get fixes that shouldnāt have been problems in the first place.
No argument at all. And I agree with the dashboard part - it is an interesting issue. And what it does, is what it does - that is a fact. While I never shared dashboard links (when I was using Hubitat dashboards), I will admit I never appreciated the full potential of doing so either - past access to the page that was intentionally shared.
I do say that often, because if it isn't broken for me of course I would rather them spend engineering time adding new things I will use, rather than fixing issues I don't have. Is that self-serving? You bet! I try to push them to fix things that impact me, same as any other user.
I have spent a good deal of my personal and professional life stating that the common person deserves just as much security and privacy as the techies at the top who know what is happening. Those people are the most vulnerable, and when you have vulnerable people in a share platform, you too can become a target.
Hubitat does remind me of a lot of other projects in that the community has its own attitude. But overall the community is very helpful and the massive amount of community-provided software is wonderful.
I have seen other software projects were I immediately regretted posting anything at all. You'd be told to read the docs, but the docs were years out of date, with the current solution to a major issue being buried on page 203 of a thread with a misleading subject. Pointing this out didn't make you any friends. Thank god, this place is not like that, because the forum seems pretty essential to learning to use your hub.
I hope everyone keeps posting when they can reproduce problems. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease, but ya gotta keep squeaking to have a chance. I appreciate the efforts of our various rabble-rousers.
Aveva does this to me every time I call for support on their TIS/OMM software. I never call unless I have already exhausted my knowledge and documentation, but it's very off-putting. If I had a choice I'd just go with a different software package, but they are so entwined in our business now I couldn't change it at this point if I had a choice.
