Z-wave+ mixed network

It's my understanding, at least with Vera, that you can have a mixed Z-wave/Z-wave+ network, but the Z-wave+ features won't work.

Is this also the case with Hubitat? Taking the hub all over the house to pair switches is a huge pain in the butt.

I moved half of my house from one Hubitat Hub to a 2nd.. never moved the hub once. I did use an Aeon ZStick to augment the Exclude. On occasion, the Exclude would say it was done, but then Include would spin and spin. A quick exclude using the ZStick would cure that. :smiley:

I would migrate a room at a time. Tablet in hand, click the remove and then 'do-the-device-dance' and when the page went away, usually indicating the exclude worked, I'd flip tabs to start an include on the 2nd hub, 'do-the-device-dance' and it would show, ready for me to name.

If you have at least one plug in outlet to act as a repeater, you shouldn't have any issues. I just converted from Vera this past Monday, I have a zooz siren about 35 feet from my hub, and use it as a repeater for a mailbox fibaro fgk-101 contact sensor that is over 100 feet from it. It paired with no problems and the notification happens so fast from that sensor that I can literally open up my poe camera app and still watch the mailman drive away.

Also most of the features that did not work on many devices I had on Vera, work perfectly on Hubitat, as well as those that Vera created child devices for are apart of the parent device status in Hubitat.

Well, you can certainly have a mixed Z-Wave and Z-Wave Plus network on Hubitat--and any controller, for that matter. Z-Wave Plus devices are backwards-compatible per the specifications. Hubitat does support Z-Wave Plus, so if you have an all-Plus network you don't have to "worry" about anything.

I think the answer to your question about what "Z-Wave Plus features" you won't get on a mixed network is less clear, though so is the question itself. Many Z-Wave Plus features are specific to the devices themselves: longer battery life (on battery devices), better range, smaller Z-Wave chip, etc. Having a Plus controller won't help a non-Plus node much here, so it doesn't matter much (except maybe the longer range of the controller, but you're obviously still limited by the other node's transmission abilities). Some Z-Wave Plus features like the ability to pair through the mesh will likely require Plus nodes all the way through the desired node's path to the controller. You don't have the ability to choose that (actually, some advanced Z-Wave tools will let you change the routing, but this still doesn't help you with pairing), so that is one issue I could see with a mixed network. This is partly a guess on my part since I'm not a Z-Wave expert, but unless a Plus controller is able to work magic with non-Plus repeaters, it's the only way I could really imagine this working. Someone with greater knowledge in this domain may want to chime in.

If you care about this, the best thing you can do is probably make all your repeating nodes Z-Wave Plus (if you're unfamiliar: repeaters are generally any powered device like in-wall outlets, pocket sockets, in-wall switches, and USB-powered motion sensors and whatnot).* Having a "classic" Z-Wave battery-powered device like a typical motion sensor or contact sensor shouldn't affect you much then (other than not being able to use features you'd get if that device itself were Plus, e.g., better battery life or through-the-mesh pairing). I don't see any reason this case would hinder the ability of Plus devices to fully utilize Plus features.

In summary, your only limit should really be the path between the "end" node and the hub/controller (and again, having all-Plus repeaters will help here). This thread on the HomeSeer forum has users' experience that supports my guesses. :slight_smile:

*tip: if you plan on getting Z-Wave smart locks, take it one step further and make sure they also support beaming (any recent device is required too but Plus has been around for just a bit longer), at least in rooms near the lock.

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I have a mixed Zwave network. The bulk of my gear is the older 40kbit Zwave spec, consisting mostly of Leviton Vizia RF+ paddle switches/dimmers (30+) and GE/Jasco Outdoor appliance modules.

The newer stuff is Zwave Plus, with Bali AutoView blinds and Zooz appliance modules.

There may be nuances due to the mix, but things appear to work as they should.... once you get past the pairing phase for the older gear.

For pairing of the older Zwave gear, I had to be very close to each device to add them. I don’t ever remember having to do that with Vera (esp with its Full power inclusion mode).

I suspect that there are Zwave options that Hubitat could take advantage of here that they’re missing out on ... unless Vera simply has better range.

NB: I used an older Aeon remote to unpair from Vera as I went along, and I ended up using a wired Ethernet connection to my [older] laptop running in bridge mode. It’s clunk, but it worked.

For the newer spec gear, I also ended up pairing them ‘locally’, and for the Zooz devices, I brought some of them generally closer, but not right atop the Hubitat (2 rooms over)

All that said, there’s no Zwave neighbor map so i can’t tell if Hubitat is direct-path to the newer stuff, or making hops through other gear... making it difficult to tell if there’s feature imparement going through the older-spec nods.

I have no Zwave locks, nor other battery gear. I eliminated those a long time ago. I also don’t have any of the really old (9.6 kbit) Zwave stuff in my network

Oh, and the obvious... anything routing through the older nodes will have it’s speed dropped to their limits. In my case, 40kbit/s...

Given I came from a network like that, it’s really not any different.

How did you use the Aeon remote to unpair devices from the Vera?

I have one of these Aeon remotes:

When you slide open the bottom section, there’s a [Remove] button. A Zwave-controller like this can be used to remove a (paired) Zwave node from any network.

In this case, I’d press the [Remove] button, which will make the LEDs flash blue (on the remote), then I’d press/activate the Light/Dimmer, and the LEDs would flash Red, and shortly thereafter the Light/Dimmer became unpaired (from Vera) and was ready to pair with Hubitat. At that point, I’d press the [Remove] button on the Aeon again to get it out of that mode... if you leave it in that mode, you can go around unpairing multiple devices in one hit.

Early on, I shutdown Vera before doing any of this. As things went on, I’d often leave Vera running.

The MiniMotes are cool, BUT they are no longer produced. The Aeon ZStick does the same Exclude job. Fractionally easier.. no door to slide. Just press and hold the ONLY button for 3 flashes and it goes orange/amber and you're in Exclude mode. When you're done, press the only button again and it goes Blue then Off.

FYI.. the MiniMote is what the ZWave spec imagined a 'secondary controller' was: a hand held device that would help with EX|Includes. That's why it's such bad terminology for 'us' in 2019.

Is it a metal mailbox? Mine is less than 100' from the hub and I've tried a bunch of sensors, but the signal doesn't make it through the mailbox and the truck...

Yes it is a metal mailbox. The trick is to install it on the outside of the mailbox, with the 4 holes for the DS18B20 facing down so rain does not enter, I also take further precaution and cover the battery door crack in silicone to water proof it, it's worked fine since August of last year. Although it does eat batteries rather fast in below freezing temperatures.

I also had the same issues when I first tried installing this on Vera, and found that it semi worked on the outside of the box, none at all on the inside, here on Hubitat, it works flawlessly, but it's still on the outside, I had to check the mail yesterday as it never sent the notification and I thought maybe this was the first fail to fire, NOPE, the mailbox was empty, no mail delivered that day.

I'm not looking at the mailbox at the moment, but I can't think of how I'd be able to align it with the magnet if it were upside down... Any chance you could post a picture?

Yes, if I can remember tomorrow in the daylight I will. The Sensor is mounted with a screw on the actual mailbox and the magnet is siliconed to the door lip.

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Thank you. That's not at all what I was picturing, but it's a simple solution that looks like it will work great.

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