Well, My hub needs are pretty basic,
I need sunrise / sunset scheduling
I need a couple lights to come on when motion is sensed but only after sunset
and I need a couple macro's / scenes
That is about it. Do you know if this Insteon hub could do that sort of thing?
Yes they do, but you need an Insteon motion sensor if you're only using an Insteon hub. They have scenes, but there isn't any automation with Insteon. You can make devices connected to an Insteon hub do automations, scene's, sunrise/sunset and much more with a Hubitat hub.
You will then have the capability to use any button or sensor with lights and outlets connected to the Insteon hub (which would be X10 in your case). For example, after 10pm, this tiny Xiaomi motion sensor in my kitchen will turn off the Insteon switch if there is no motion for 10 minutes. This behavior continues until sunrise.
Much nicer to be able to use this, instead of this monstrosity. Or worse, https://www.amazon.com/Insteon-2842-222-Wireless-Motion-Sensor/dp/B003IHTZEO
Another example would be the buttons I use. I don't have Insteon buttons. I use a Xiaomi Aqara Zigbee button in my living room to control the door lock (Yale YRD256 Z-Wave), a floor lamp (Insteon outlet), the kitchen light (insteon on/off switch) and my dining room lights (Sengled Element Plus Zigbee bulbs). Five presses and a hold possible. I also control my deck light (Insteon Dimmer) and my dining room lights. with a Lutron Pico remote via my Lutron Caséta SmartBridge Pro with directly integrates with Hubitat.
You can kind of get the picture from this that once. you have a Hubitat hub, you can pretty well control Insteon and X10 via the Insteon 2244 hub, with just about anything. You break outside the beige box!
OK this is great to understand!
I am currently using HomeGenie on a PI which connects to my X10 PLM and it is quite a contraption. I am looking to minimize the rube-goldberg nature and improve the WAF. 
So I LOVE the idea of keeping my X10 stuff installed or at least gradually switching it out by making use of the Insteon Hub controlled by Hubitat BUT I am concerned that this is yet again a bit of rube-goldberg... I may bug you more about this... so be warned
Right now, I have the hubitat up and one Neo power plug working (z-wave) ... and a few more things on the way... Gotta test it all out before the return period expires!!
It's maybe a fair statement, but anything that isn't Zigbee, Z-Wave or IP is going to need another hub to translate between protocols. Hubitat has two radios and can work with some devices over IP. It's not a one hub talks to them all deal. That's just never going to exist again. Closest was the Staples Connect, but they never got the Insteon radio either.
Really it's one extra hop if you need feedback to Hubitat when a switch is manually controlled. Don't know if you have that with X10. I do with Insteon, but if you don't, then that method is not worth your time.
I'm going to reiterate that if you can't see the change from physical manipulation of your switches anyway, and you can control them via HTTP GET, you don't need an Insteon hub at all. You should be able to use what you have. Unless of course it requires an old power hungry Windows PC to be running all the time or something like that. In that case, I'm on your Wife's side. Get the Insteon Hub or just replace the X10 altogether.
So it's like this:
• Method 1 (direct to PLM): Hubitat HTTP GET via driver > Insteon PLM > X10 device
• Method 2 (HTTP GET via Express server driver): Hubitat HTTP GET > Express Server (a simple Node.js app) > Insteon PLM > X10 device
• Refresh for Method 2: Rule Machine rule simply refreshes the devices on a periodic shedule. I use 10 second intervals and have had no issues from it.
Thanks for being SO helpful!!!
I will be thinking through this.
Since you are so helpful, maybe I could ask a couple other questions?
I've seen some "bad press" on Xiaomi devices... Sounds like you are using them... any feedback on that? Are they "high maintenance" ? Why do people not like them?
Just curious... is Insteon a long term solution do you think? They've been around forever... do you think they will continue forever? Competition has got to be great.
Thanks again!
Sure no problem.
So Xiaomi devices are close to the Zigbee spec, but they don't follow it exactly. So for developers this is a pain because they have a lot of design variation. However, we're so lucky to have such very talented developers that have managed to create some really reliable drivers.
The Xiaomi also tend to fall off your network unless they are either really close to the hub or you have repeaters. Because they are non-compliant Zigbee, many repeaters do not work with them. The list is short. However, the recently introduced IKEA Trådfri outlets are compatible repeaters for Xiaomi and other Zigbee devices. They're only $9, so that's another bonus, but as a result they also do not have strong radios. But they connect to each other nicely, so if you buy several of them and place them around your home, you should have a healthy Zigbee mesh. This is my experience since adding just two of the IKEA Trådfri outlets. None of my Xiaomi devices have dropped.
Insteon is about 14 years old now I think. They were bought by Richmond Capital Partners and Rob Lilleness is their new CEO. So far they haven't produced much more than they had before, but the insider info suggest they're not giving up and we can expect more from them. Honestly it's tough for me to recommend someone go out any buy their devices if they don't already own them. I'd be more inclined to recommend Lutron Caséta, which I know isn't going anywhere. There are several ways to control Insteon via cloud, but it's not 100% reliable if the cloud doesn't have a 100% up time, which it most certainly does not. Not bad, but at times it was getting some harsh feedback. Very, very low WAF.
Having said that, there's just software standing between their hub and full integration with Hubitat. It's just not a big enough user base for them to get on board with the limited resources they have at this stage, and I completely understand that position. I'm thankful that I have help from Scott Kuester who answered the call to separate the Insteondirect Express Server from Homebridge. That made a huge difference, and if it were not for the generous help from @cwwilson08 and @ogiewon, I wouldn't have the drivers needed to control my lights via the Express Server.
The insteon product actually has got a lot going for it that many competitors still cannot do.
• Dual mesh - Insteon radio mesh and an evolved X10 type powerline mesh.
• Hardware programmable - Switches, dimmers and outlets can be controllers, responders or both. They can also have their ON and ramp rates programmed in hardware.
• Some of their devices, like outlets and plug-in modules have load sensing. So for example, if I turn on my floor lamp connected to my Insteon outlet, it senses that the light is trying to draw power and turns that outlet on. This is then recognized by Hubitat and so nothing gets out of sync. Big WAF. She just uses our lights anyway she wants, and yet still has full control via Alexa.
• They have changeable face plates: For me white is just fine, but some people want other colors. They also offer ivory, off-white and black changeable faces. Leviton is one of the few others that I know offers this. Many want you to replace the whole switch or simply don't offer the option at all.
Now consider these options that typically don't come in a consumer device, or if it does you pay through the nose for it. Insteon are very cost effective by comparison. I do admit to some bias, but ever since I started using the standalone Express Server, which was the beginning of October, my Insteon lights are rock solid. Zero issues other than an old model outlet that needed replacing, and I have suspected issues with it for years. Wasn't until it started physically showing improper behavior that I knew it was time for it to go.
Short summary of my setup...
Using an ACT TI103 RS232 to X10 interface (Advanced Control Technologies)
X10 does not directly support http access...
What I have is a Linux system running Apache server...
The TI103 is plugged into a serial port on the server.
I have a cgi-bin perl script that converts the http get request to the
proper ASCII sequence for the TI103.
http://192.168.0.111:44444/cgi-bin/control.pl?B;1;on
(For this post I changed the IP /port #/ and perl script name- no need to share my
actual values 
This would Turn House code B, Module 1 On...
I have set up my HE with a dashboard of virtual switches that can
switch any of my current X10 devices...
Attached is what my current dashboard looks like...(simple but functional)
Summary:basically I'm using linux to bridge the HE to my X10 devices...
I just bought my first z-wave switch... haven't installed/setup yet...
...it's a start...
RayB...
Thanks for explaining it Ray. I'm sure your direct knowledge of X10 would be a lot more helpful to @kv1.
Very interesting.... I will digest these last couple posts shortly. Thanks for all the great info.
One other question... since I am just starting out I sort of have the choice of ZWave or Zigbee (or yes... both but I thought I'd try to go with one).
I initially chose ZWAVE bc I like the lower frequency band in general for a couple reasons... but... it seems that ZigBee devices might be quite a bit cheaper in general... for example the plugs and sensors that @SmartHomePrimer mentioned are way cheaper than any ZWAVE device I could find.
Is my observation on cost consistent with what you guys have seen?
THANK YOU!!!!
The licensing is one reason that yes, you will generally pay a lot more for Z-Wave devices vs Zigbee. I'll put in my two bits on the subject, but there will never be a definitive answers, just a bunch of opinions 
I like Zigbee for these reasons:
Having said this, Z-Wave definitely has its strengths and place in Home Automation. I have only two Z-Wave devices myself, but both are reliable. One, a door lock I really like. Good security on Z-Wave devices. Not that I feel a threat from my use of Zigbee devices, but it's a bullet point I guess. I looked at what locks and radio types people here and on other platforms were have the best success with and that helped inform my decision.
My other Z-Wave device is a Home Energy Meter that @ogiewon told me about when he ported @mike.maxwell laundry monitoring driver. That's what I'm using it for and it works great. I have it powered, not running on battery. It's and older device and not a Z-Wave Plus device like my door lock, but it hasn't been trouble to date.
I think the general consensus for Z-Wave is get the Z-Wave Plus devices if you can. They're a lot less trouble.
MANY THANKS! And people don't generally have an issue with Zigbee interfering with WiFi? That is one other thing I was worried about. I still have a lot of 2GHz band WiFi going on around here
I've got a couple Peanut's coming to test out Zigbee
There's legitimate concern over sideband channels if the two are in close proximity, but you can just change the channel of either to avoid interference. I've never had an issue and I've never seen anyone say "man, this Zigbee/WiFi interference is just insurmountable". It's not an issue that doesn't have a simple solution, in other words.
Keep in mind that Peanut plugs need a Zigbee channel below 20. That's just a requirement to get those plugs to work properly. Oh, and I think I recall reading that they are not good at repeating Zigbee signals.
So a bit of a followup .
I installed the HTTP Switch driver and now, through HomeGenie on the Raspberry Pi, I can control all my X-10 stuff with hubitat.
It is a good way for me to gradually get off X-10.
Actually, X-10 is not my biggest problem it was HomeGenie and the Pi.... but in anycase--- I am on the way now and pretty excited. Thanks all!
Would you mind providing a few more details on your setup? did you buy the kit SmartHomePrimer suggested? any other equipment you needed to source? i have a bunch of modules from when i had my x10 setup i would love to use. Will probably need to buy a new antenna device since the one i had broke years ago.
OK - for X10 you absolutely must have the XTB http://jvde.us/xtb-iir.htm but you probably already know that.
As far as interfacing to Hubitat I have a Raspberry Pi that runs HomeGenie software on it. The Pi connects to a CM15A which acts as the power line modem
I am finally moving away from X10 though... I can no longer stomach the reliability issues.
If you want to go this route... I believe I would recommend getting a Pi Zero and then looking on the X10 Home Genie forum for an SD Card image all ready to go for the Pi Zero.
What do you think?
no never heard of them and hopefully i can skip buying one. the idea of this is to implement a number of automations on the cheap and replace later with zigbee and zwave devices. The only problem i ever had with x10 was "ghost signals" turning on the light in my bedroom at 3 in the morning. never had problems receiving signals. The room i will have all the back-end equipment in is right above the power panel so hopefully that will help and i wont need it. I think i still have the com port version of that somewhere.... but probably better to buy the usb version.
so shoping list is a
cm15a and pi zero... cool
Thanks For the help!
I fried my CM15A trying to do that - It was an expensive lesson, bad soldering, I wanted to embed ESP inside the box, never quite worked. Was going to use your ST_Anyting for it.
Any way thinking of porting my ST node red based solution for X-10, its pretty solid other than dimming, which is another story.
The whole reason for node red in the ST solution is because you cant do a long running tcp session, hoping to eliminate that and talk directly from HE to mochad or heyu running on a PI. On that note - wondering if I can have a long running socket based session that I can interact with? i.e. open a socket and either send commands to it or listen to it asynchronously ?
Hubitat now supports webSockets, which would achieve the same goal. Check out my Logitech Harmony Hub driver for an example of how to implement webSockets in Hubitat. Your RPi would need to run webSockets as well, of course.
Yeah that means another layer on top of mochad - but maybe it will be simpler, ST comms is nuts, atleast here you can have clean async
I haven't followed the entire conversation with regards to node-red and etc... but if you are trying to control X10 including dimming etc from Hubitat... have you considered the solution that I mentioned?
It seems VERY reliable.
I run homegenie on a Pi... this gets you URL access to all your X10 stuff with a pretty rich set of commands.
Then I have a simple custom driver in HE to send out the URL requests from Hubitat... basically all my X10 stuff looks like a Hubitat device(s) etc... AND you can do ALL ON and ALL OFF commands easily this way too.
It's pretty easy to get set up and while I got real sick of trying to use HomeGenie as a general purpose hub- it works great as a bridge in this manner.
Just food for thought....
Download the Hubitat app
