but that is not the definition of a "app" that is just what you want the HE app to do and i can tell you now, this is NOT going to happen, not because i don't want it to but because that was one of the main things the HE team HATED about ST app. It doesn't match up with the image of HE as a company as well, its selling point is that they dont data mine and they want predominantly a local system which is NOT dependent on the cloud, to do what you want goes against that.
Cloud stuff costs money, allot of money, it's also not as secure, local stuff doesn't cost and is inherently secure.
why? I am assuming your talking about cloud dependent stuff, this only proves my point above. Keep away from cloud where possible you will alway be disappointed otherwise.
If you really need to get emergency access to the hub do what i do ( not for HE but it can do it too) get a raspberry PI and set up the built in VNC. Put the lot on a DC backup and sorted! you can remote in to your network for free and securely if you ever need to. If your set up your hub well, you won't ever need to or need to use the dashboard, IN the APP.
I understand exactly what you want. You've said it multiple times. And you are 100% entitled to want what you want. I'm not arguing any of that.
But realistically what you want is not how Hubitat works, and there are no publicly announced efforts to add that functionality.
For remote control it is dashboards (through the app or not, using Hubitat or SharpTools).
For remote admin it is VPN to your network (or VNC or any other remote connection method), and use the web interface on the hub.
If that doesn't meet your needs then you should, as you stated earlier, go to a different product. Not because you are wrong and they are right, I'm not saying that at all. Simply for the reason that the product won't meet your needs, and there are no plans to change that any time soon. That's just a simple fact.
TLDR; If you can't use dashboards for remote control (Hubitat or SharpTools) for whatever reason, but need remote control, then this is not the product for you. I genuinely mean that as constructive and helpful as possible - not trying to be snarky or dismissive.
See this is where I have finally stopped being confused. I was reading this whole thread wondering why you were complaining about not having an app when there is an app. If you had said you didn't find the app to be as featured as you want, I don't think there would have been as much back-and-forth here.
Personally, I don't want an app, and I don't use Hubitat's app. I hate apps, especially those apps that have no reason to not be a web page. I have a dashboard link on my phone and I can use it from anywhere, since I use a VPN. I could also use it from anywhere without a VPN if I let it leave my LAN, but I don't. I love having everything local. Anyone who uses IoT devices in the cloud is going to be pwned by a botnet eventually. It's just a matter of when you'll need to toss it in the bin to stay safe, or you'll be pwned.
I have no issues with any of what any of you are saying, That's my point anyone can make their case without saying that a user should just leave and go elsewhere.
If you keep telling users they can go elsewhere then they will, So then you have to ask the question if only a few users are left will HE assist if users exit the answer is no.
If the dashboards are the way that HE wants to go and never get a app or a way that a novice user can interact then fine I can except it and as some stated i can move on so that my family has a better experience not just myself.
If some users on this platform think that HE will grow and continue to stay viable without there being novice users on the platform your just wrong.
I know a lot of smartthings users that are still on that platform not becuase they like it but because the ease of use and the simple nature of the app. i have tried to get my wife and kids to use the dashboards but for them there is always an issue and my wife doesn't believe she should have to head to a computer to interact with the system, She would prefer an app for that.
it's to each his or her own im not saying anyone here shouldn't enjoy the platform if it works for them and their family the way they like. if the dashboards work fine i'm just saying for some a good ole fashion app is preferable.
As someone stated above, If I introduce a new device into my system lets say a new light I have to not only add it to the system but then I have to go into the dashboard and add it there as well before it can even be used through the dashboard.
But i've talked on this subject enough and it seems that I have ruffled some feathers so i won't go on with this. just remember if you have no customers around a business cant prosper no matter how you get around it.
I agree everyone should be able to submit feedback, but I still truly don't know what you're asking for. Instead of telling me "I want an app not a dashboard" can you please tell me what this "app" does that a dashboard doesn't? Are you talking about the giant scrolling list I had in ST of my nearly 200 devices that was just alphabetized and I had to scroll through to find stuff? Or something else? I suspect your wife and kids aren't asking for an app that lets you pair new devices instead of from the web, so I really don't know what you view as missing that ST had. As a software designer (and I'm in no way affiliated with HE), I understand you don't like what HE does, however, you haven't really described what you want. Why does your wife feel the app doesn't meet her needs? Is it because it shows the data in multiple columns instead of a big list? I'm not trying to be a pain, you clearly have feedback to share, however, I honestly don't know what you're saying it should do other than "it should be friendly." Soooo what's unfriendly and what do you recommend changing. I'm asking for details. Imagine for a moment I plan to go build the app you're looking for, tell me what he needs to do that HE doesn't so I could actually go and build it.
If you tell me the dashboards are too slow, I agree. I'm sure their working on that.
If you say they're ugly, I agree. I know they know this and there are already community projects to pretty it up.
But beyond that, I don't know what you're suggesting.
That is also what I think everyone here is struggling with. What is this mythical "app" that biggkatt01 needs?
As far as I can tell, there is still confusion on both sides of this. I still don't understand after nearly 150 posts what it is that Hubitat cannot do.
I'm a bored developer with free time right now who never did mobile development. I'm looking for an excuse to learn. If someone tells me what they need, maybe I'll build it, maybe not, I don't know... but right now I don't know what "it" is.
I feel the same way. I looked into app development for ios and then just got frustrated. I don't have a mac and it feels like you need one. If there is a way to develop for ios without a mac please point me in the right direction.
I thought this was making sense, but considering you just stated that HE wants to never get an app, I fear that you may not have read all the multiple times that people have written, and linked to, the app that is available for HE.
Again, writing that your wife doesn't want to use a computer to interact with the system, but prefers an app, makes me wonder if you realize there is actually an app. It's been said repeatedly; in no way is a computer needed to interact with the system. It's much easier to set up your devices, automations, and dashboards (if, like me, you want to use that kind of thing) from a large screen, but it's certainly possible to do that from a phone or tablet, as well.
I can't imagine any hub being able to know what to do by just being plugged in and automatically finding my various devices. No matter what, someone has to tell the thing what they are for. There are companies that do all of that. In fact, I'm sure there are home automation companies who will set everything up for you on HE if you want. I'm happy to be able to do all this myself.
I'm wondering if @biggkatt01 is saying something along the lines of... "Wink spoiled me. I add a device and I'm done. It magically appears in the App, without any work for me." I think the same thing is true with SmartThings.. you add a device and it shows in the App with no work.
It has little to do with App, per se. but it is a difference in how the Hubitat app works, because there's an Admin decision or two needed that isn't an option in Wink or ST. "Does this need to be exposed? Where?"
With Hubitat, I can create a virtual device, and have it manage two or three other devices and those other devices never have to be exposed. I use this with a sliding glass door that optionally has a dog door inserted. That places the sliding door in one of two positions when Closed. I have a sensor for both and I simply OR them into a virtual and expose THAT to anything that cares about that particular door. I don't care which sensor is saying the door is closed as long as one of them is. You can't do that with Wink or ST, every device is in the App. (Yea, hide a device in a 'junk room' -- but it's still exposed in the App.)
I am just guessing, reading between the lines, but I think it's that automatic element that is throwing the "NOT an App" error message
I guess that makes sense, but I agree, the way HE is positioned you don't WANT all your devices to show up, you want to pick. I have like 8 presence devices... that boil down to 2 I care about. I combine iPhone presence, Life360, Alexa, and using Beacons for me and my wife. I don't want to see 8 devices, I just want to see the one combined one I have. Yeah I care about the details of the component devices, but my wife doesn't. Same, I have a power sensor that monitors my washer and dryer. My wife doesn't care to see it's using 37 Watts, she wants the virtual device I have that just shows "Washer is Done". If I showed all my devices my list would be an absolute mess. But you are correct, in ST I didn't have to add a device to the list, it just happened.
That being said, there is a middle ground. HE could have a box when you create a new device that says "Add to the following dashboards" and then it's a 1 step process making it simpler and more error proof.
It's a big paradigm switch.. This is what?? the third 'wave' of Wink guests? So by this time, we're not talking to people that WANT to switch, those left in the previous two waves. This wave and any future waves are all people that want Hubitat to be a drop-in-replacement for Wink, I suspect.
I'm not surprised at all.. the anguish needed to move things from one to another is more than enough for any mere human. I am sorta hearing they don't want the new features (Yet). We, those of us on THIS side of the anguish barrier, know that the benefits are huge. But if you're still a "Remote Control variety Smart House" those features are just trouble, today. Neither ST or Wink have been reliable and that certainly influences the desire to 'do more' -- my bet is that in six to eight weeks we'll be hearing a lot about "I just finished implementing my Automated Smart Home -- why didn't you tell me about this a month ago?"
Then a new user would likely select that setting, so every new device would be available and the HE hub would likely struggle, refreshing or polling all those devices.
Then come the complaints of Hub slow downs.
But I don't think that's fair. The fact that having a bunch of stuff on a dashboard makes it slow is really more of a flaw in my eyes. I had a boss who used to say "the minute you say 'I have to poll' is the minute you realize 'you're doing it wrong'"
I actually think Hubitat should have the option for an "All Devices" dashboard that is automatically updated with All Devices. Even if it had to update on a much slower frequency (15s? 30s? I don't know)
I would never use it personally, but then the "app" would have the same functionality as users get with other hubs' app. And it should be pretty easy to code (?) - which is easy for the guy that doesn't have to code it to say.
Hah, I've thought about it. However, each time I build something as an addon to HE I always think to myself "how likely is it that they're already working on something like this?" I feel like a refresh of the dashboard is probably on their list so I don't want to build something to throw away. Of course I'm just speculating.
I mean an all devices app could definitely be made w/MakerAPI... I had exactly that on Node-RED for a while. Populated initially with an all devices call, updates based on events.
But I'm not convinced that installing MakerAPI, etc, is a reasonable approach to this as the target audience is novice users to being with.
I still vote for Hubitat making a built-in All Devices dashboard with slow refresh rate.
I am sorta hearing they don't want the new features (Yet). We, those of us on THIS side of the anguish barrier, know that the benefits are huge. But if you're still a "Remote Control variety Smart House" those features are just trouble, today. Neither ST or Wink have been reliable and that certainly influences the desire to 'do more' -- my bet is that in six to eight weeks we'll be hearing a lot about "I just finished implementing my Automated Smart Home -- why didn't you tell me about this a month ago?" 
