Why are local backups smaller than cloud backups?

[ljp-hubitat]

My cloud backups are 8 Mb. My local backups are 7 Mb. That seems strange to me. Why would this be?

LJ

[ritchierich]

Would assume because cloud backups also contain the radio databases too.

[ljp-hubitat]

Why would local backups not contain the radio backups? If your theory is correct then local backups would be worthless if there is radio database corruption, would they not?

LJ

[ritchierich]

@ljp-hubitat

Why would local backups not contain the radio backups?

Radio backups were added when the hub protect offering was released. At first only Zwave radio was included but with the C8 Zigbee is also included. The local backups have never contained radio databases.

[marktheknife]

@ritchierich is correct re: cloud backups and radio databases.

This has been true ever since the hub protect service was released in 2021.

Introducing Hub Protect

We are excited to announce a new way for you to protect your Hubitat Elevation hub, including your apps, settings and connected devices: [image] Cloud backup and restore for apps, settings and devices Hub-to-hub Z-Wave device migration Extended warranty for duration of subscription period Cloud Backup Hub Protect stores up to five backups at a time on our secure cloud servers. Backups save all of your settings, rules, apps and connected Z-wave devices. You can set your own schedule for auto…

[sburke781]

Personally I think it would be worth seeing this kind of "fyi" added to the backup process. I know it has been a long-standing thing, but would be worth re-enforcing with new users each time they take a backup.

EDIT - I say this, like most of my comments, without too much (any) research... others are just too quick with confident answers... If backups include this kind of information, that is great.

[ljp-hubitat]

I agree. While I was aware that when Cloud Backup first came out it was the only way to backup radios, but I assumed that they ultimately fixed that shortcoming in the local backups. It would certainly be worth noting in bold print that the only way to restore a corrupted radio database would be with their cloud service. That seems a bit unusual. is that a marketing decision simply to drive adoption of the Protect product offering or is there a technical reason why local backups can’t include radio databases?

LJ

[sburke781]

Let's not get too critical of the marketing or notes that exist already... I'm not sure they explicitly indicate that radios are included.... I am just saying it would be nice to see the current notes indicate the current limitation.

I think many would like to see the radio included, but (without investigating) I can only assume there is a reason for the radio being left out of the local backup.

[marktheknife]

@ljp-hubitat

That seems a bit unusual. is that a marketing decision simply to drive adoption of the Protect product offering or is there a technical reason why local backups can’t include radio databases?

It could be both, but my understanding is there were technical problems they had to overcome, particularly with zigbee radio backups. The solution they went with involved cloud backups. It was not purely a decision to take more money from customers.

This has been discussed in other threads previously.

[sburke781]

I think that answers the question about the size difference between local and cloud backups...

[ljp-hubitat]

@sburke781

Let's not get too critical of the marketing or notes that exist already...

Please don’t mistake my comment on marketing as criticism. I believe that if that is the reason, that would be a legitimate marketing and product decision for any company. They have a revenue generating product offering and it is OK to drive adoption with product decisions. Everyone does it. I just believe and agree with your first comment that this ought to be disclosed somewhere.

LJ

[ljp-hubitat]

@marktheknife

This has been discussed in other threads previously.

Sorry if I missed them, I did a cursory search on the subject and couldn’t find them.

Thanks for all the replies. This is a great community.

LJ

[sburke781]

@ljp-hubitat

Please don’t mistake my comment on marketing as criticism

All good, just registering my thoughts, glad you are on the same page.

@ljp-hubitat

Sorry if I missed them

It's only my habbit for logging onto the Community I tend to notice these things, so no criticism from me for others missing these things...

[johnwill1]

@ljp-hubitat

local backups would be worthless if there is radio database corruption, would they not?

But Hub Protect might be a hard sell if radio data was stored in local backups....

[csteele]

I have read multiple times that Hub Protect is an extended warranty service on the hub itself. The service will replace a defective hub, during the subscription period. To do that, the radio data would need to be included and a migration strategy added too, for it to attract people.

Most of us haven't found the hubs to be failing at a rate that places a replacement high on the requirements list. Instead we, the Community, focus on the backup. We intentionally put the cart before the horse. And that's ok because we are more likely to be swapping hubs for feature reasons over hard fail reasons.

[JasonJoel]

Same comments I always have when this topic comes up....

1. Do I wish I could do a local backup with the radio info?
   • Yes. Who wouldn't prefer free/local versus subscription/cloud?
2. Could Hubitat allow us to do local backups with radio info?
   • Yes, they technically could. They chose not to, though, for support/revenue stream/other reasons altogether and customers will decide for themselves whether they are OK with that or not.
3. Do I mind paying for the Hub Protect service?
   • No, not really. If I did I wouldn't.
4. Am I glad there is a way to backup the radios at all?
   • I sure am.