Wondering what folks would do if they could do it over again in terms of whole-house water shutoff. We are re-modeling and the house does not have an interior shutoff valve. My thought was to add an automated (Moen Flo, Ball valve + Zooz Titan, or something else ) shutoff inside (in closet or garage).
Local code does not require a secondary shutoff valve (in crawlspace or outside of home). I was going to have them add an internal shutoff valve so that I could wire a Zooz Titan up to it. Given that it's a vacation home, the features of the Moen Flo (like pressure & leak monitoring) are appealing, however it sounds like Moen doesn't have good options for smart home integrations other than Alexa, but the reliability on Moen is supposedly high.
What would you do or what have you done that you're happy with? Standard Ball valve + Zooz in the closet with one of those external grip on flow sensors (Droplet) that senses things like pressure, usage, etc? I could make sure the plumber leaves enough space in the shutoff box for both Zooz and flow monitor (like Droplet)?
I have a Titan on one of my whole-house valves and one on my water heater. I like Titans over other similar "strap-on" devices because 1) optional battery backup, 2) wired water sensor, 3) you can schedule a routine testing check that helps make sure the valve doesn't get stuck (due to never getting actuated), 4) it's a very burly design hardware-wise.
I've long had a Flume on my water meter and although I initially had low expectations for it, it is impressively reliable and accurate -- that helps watch the entire system for issues (especially when we're away).
A while back, I was offered a great deal on a Phyn Plus, so I installed that too -- it's also hella impressive in terms of monitoring things, and I like it better than Moen Flo because Phyn is ultrasonic for detection instead of a janky impeller in the pipe that could break apart sooner or later. Phyn also does a nightly pressure check of my pipes to make sure there are no small leaks anywhere - I really like that warm fuzzy.
The bummer is Phyn doesn't integrate with anything, but Home Assistant to the rescue - they figured it out, so I bring all of my Phyn's features into HE via HADB -- it works fantastically.
Dome Shut Off. I have 2 and they've been 100% reliable. You'd have to find on Ebay, etc. Of all my Z-wave devices this one has never, in 8 years, fallen off the mesh, gone unresponsive. It even saved me from an actual flood under the kitchen sink.
Too bad they're no longer being made.
I like all local, so even if internet is out, I know the house is protected. Simple is smart and not a ton of circuit boards to go bad, a motor and a relay.
Dome flood sensors, also no longer made are phenominal. Extreme battery life and again, never fallen off the mesh. I originally hated them because they didn't report everyday, but everytime it mattered, they responded.
IMHO, vacation home, then the water is off when we're not there.
I have a leak gopher but never set it up, so can't comment
I’ve purchased a Sinope Sedna Water valve a few years back and it has been working flawlessly for me. It is Zigbee, so direct connection. It is also not an add-on on top of an existing shut-off valve, so the device and the valve have a solid connection that doesn’t pull on the pipes.
They also have a water flow sensor, though I don’t have one of them.
I have only one Zigbee device left, a Sinope propane tank monitor, pretty far away, as you would expect a 1000 gallon tank would be. It's been working flawlessly now, for years (it feels). So, maybe all Zigbee isn't bad.
I was looking at these. It looked like there was a main wifi unit and a secondary zigbee unit that talked to the wifi unit. I couldn't find out if I could just do the zigbee one. Does the flow meter have an impeller.
The wifi unit can act as a Zigbee controller to which other valves and leak sensors can be paired, which is why they named the Zigbee-only unit « secondary ».
However you can pair the Zigbee unit directly with Hubitat. Works great, and so does the flow sensor.
It’s a really well designed piece of hardware. The motorized valve actuator can be pulled off easily and the valve operated with a wescott. It also has battery backup.
I have a Zooz Titan valve actuator on a 1" Ball Valve. It works very well and integrates into Hubitat.
I like the beefy Titan design and it has plenty of torque to turn a 1" valve. We often leave our house for weeks at a time and the valve has no trouble opening after it has been closed for a longer period of time.
I have it indoors where our water meter and main shutoff resides. While they say it is fine for outdoor use I'd be inclined to find a scheme to get it out of the elements.
That's where I have had the dome not open the valve once. We were gone for a couple of months and when we came back I had to "help" the dome a couple of times to open and close the valve. We have taken several vacations similar in length since and the problem has not resurfaced. I do occasionally try and remember to spray a little lubricant on the valve now. It's probably time to do it again.
The considerations for a vacation home you should consider. Do you have remote connectivity and is insurance rebate/coverage important. The cheapest year around coverage for remote control that I found is Yolink cellular hub. Next up is using a Qolsys Alarm panel and controlling your valve and sensor that way. 5his has the added benefit of probable insurance rebates. I installed Yolink in a rental recently and it's added benefits are sensors that link directly the the valve so they will still closed the valve if the hub and cellular are down. Further, the yolink is totally battery powered so power outages do not impact the functionality. Yolink is also inexpensive and lorawan so sensor distance is a non issue. You don't have to put the valve inside. Many smart valves are certified for outdoor use.
Since you're remodeling and already in for a penny (or more ), the obvious (to me) approach is to avoid add-on devices that sit on a ball valve, like the Titan, Bulldog, and similar. I would only be considering integrated devices like Watercop, Sinope Sedna, Moen Flo, etc.
Other "musts:"
Battery backup
Uncomplicated option to operate the valve manually if necessary for some reason
Direct integration w/HE. Some may say "WHAT?!" but for me, as my wife and I are getting into the golden years, I'm working to simplify things w/fewer "HA boxes" (which for me have been RPI's primarily) around the house running our automations. I've moved all of my HA activities to just two HE hubs (C8-Pro & C7) and am doing my best to resist adding dependencies on additional hubs back in, HE or otherwise.
A wired sensor is a nice option if available to handle any issues near the valve itself, regardless of home power/local mesh up or down.
Related to all of this, don't skimp on the UPS the hub(s) will be connected to.
FWIW I have a Water Cop. It is directly integrated to its own ball valve. I'm not able to compare it physically to other similar devices, however this unit is very robust. The valve quality is comparable to higher end industrial valves. The motor and drive system is simple.
Interesting that the ball valve is only turned one way. It is open every 90° and closed 90° from the open position. This means the drive doesn't hit any "stops". A internal cam controls the on/off position.
If you like the Moen flow feature and you are dealing with a remote location. You could "test" for flow by adding a pressure sensor down stream from the valve. Periodically turn off the water and monitor the pressure in the system.
), the obvious (to me) approach is to avoid add-on devices that sit on a ball valve, like the Titan, Bulldog, and similar. I would only be considering integrated devices like Watercop, Sinope Sedna, Moen Flo, etc.