What a mishmesh :p

Someday I'll make things better. Today I have three hubs with two Zigbee meshes and two Z-wave meshes. Rules and random non-mesh devices are spread across two of the hubs. How did this happen?

Years ago I was on Wink and an internet outage left me without security lighting when I was out of town. I found Hubitat and bought a C-4 hub and was loving the local integration and better automation. My security lights weren't just motion controlled they also change colors based on the holidays. I hobbled together a Groovy app and it was working great.

The only issue is that I had lights that sometimes fell off the mesh and needed to be re-paired. It happened every few months - often enough that it was a problem. All my lights at the time were Sylvania Zigbee bulbs. I learned how bad Zigbee bulbs are as repeaters so I moved my lights to a dedicated C-5 hub and life was good.

Then the Z-wave radio on the C-4 died so I picked up a C-7 and migrated all the Z-wave and non-bulb Zigbee devices to it. The C-4 is still kicking with some oddball devices like my Onkyo receiver. I never got around to finishing the migration since things were working.

On top of all this my apps page looks like this:

What a mess of unused and test rules. The motion rules have been replaced with custom programming that I'm really happy with. Some of the tests were working on reducing false positives on the exterior sensors. Always trying new things, never cleaning up the old (mostly). Somehow everything works.

Anyway there is no real point to this story. Just pondering how I got here. It has to be one of the most OCD unfriendly integrations around. I was looking at the Zigbee graphs today and wondering what to do about some unknown devices.

The new graphs are pretty neat. One of the meshes is interesting. I like the symmetry in it.

The ultimate goal is to start from scratch and rebuild everything. I want to start with a C-8 and rebuild the main Zigbee and Z-wave meshes. Then the C-7 will be factory reset and become the new home of the Zigbee bulb mesh. The new maps will help make sure there are enough repeaters in that mesh. A second C-7 I already have will handle the one-off devices like the Onkyo and integrations that might be on the heavy side (Homekit, Alexa, etc.). The custom lighting app will likely live on the C-8 where all the motion sensors are. The C-5 will go to a friend that is interested in dabbling in some automation.

Someday it might be a system to show off. It just needs to bubble up to the top of the projects list. :smiley:

Does anybody else have their own flavor of nightmare configuration?

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I have / had a similar journey, picked up a C-4 in 2019 and have moved on to 3 C-7's and a C-8. Partway through purchasing I think my second and third C-7 I was starting to plan how I wanted to transition everything from my C-4 onto the new C-7's, one for local integrations, one for cloud-based and intensive integrations, with my original C-7 for lighting. Then I got excited by the new C-8 so have transitioning my lighting to that and used my old lighting C-7 as a development hub.

I think in the end there is only so much the platform can do in this space, if we don't clean up our mess, we just have to learn to manage it or live with it :slight_smile: . I can't claim any regular practices I have adopted in this space, but I do, where I can, try to keep things contained, away from my "production" hubs that run the rest of the house. I think one of the main things I fall down on as well is cleaning up old test devices, apps and other stuff, needing to occasionally do a clean out.

All that said, I think there have been some big advances in the process for transitioning between hubs, such as the ability to export / clone / import apps, along with the device mapping options. There is also the Hub Mesh capability, which allows a more orderly transition to a new hub, particularly for connected devices, the apps and other pieces can be setup on the new hub slowly and over time, without needing to do a big bang approach.

But yes, some of us do need to keep our stuff in order and find something that works for us and makes things easier to manage. I'd suggest mapping out, even in a very basic form, the things you want to migrate, the steps you might go through to do that migration and work through any dependencies you need to consider. I didn't do anything flash or modern or even detailed, just some notes in a text document.

The HomeKit integration needs to run on the hub that is hosting the devices.

Right but he can run an instance on each hub..

Where did those cool little symbols come from on your graph? Not OEM.

It looks like you're trying to find a good gate arrangement.
My gate and mailbox are on the edge of range. Hue motion in a plastic bag in the plastic mailbox seems to work.

You're dealing with a C7. I wonder if my C8 has a better radio than the typical repeater? If the mailbox latches onto a repeater, somehow, maybe because the general zigbee philosophy is to offload from the hub as many devices as it can, and it's weaker than the hub, periodic loss of comms, maybe depending on weather, vegetation, etc, could result. The device doesn't necessarily just transfer over to the stronger signal of the hub, I believe.

I've also had similar things going on with SmartThings presence sensors. If a repeater goes down, say because of a power outage, or other zigbee glitch involving a repeater, next thing you know, the hub thinks I've gone away and come back and starts opening garage doors.

How about the people with zigbee locks? If there's a repeater glitch there, there could be a delay or worse in getting it to work. Or sensors used in an alarm setup.

My point being, maybe a radial arrangement, with no repeaters, for battery zigbee devices could be most reliable. Of course, under the 32 device limit.

If still sticking with zigbee for powered devices, could one put all battery devices on one hub and powered devices on another? If the two hubs were meshed, could the battery devices start routing through the other hub, or would it stick with their original hub. I only have one C8 and have not looked into the meshing aspect.

Then also, if long range to get to those remote devices is an interest, maybe long range z-wave will eventually arrive.

Sorry for the rambling, but this is a Lounge thread.

Again, nice icons on the graph, wherever they came from!

Feel safe in the Lounge, I at least do at this time of night for me....

I expect they came from emoji's that can be included in device names labels.... I blame @lewis.heidrick :wink:

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I didn’t realize that. Not a big deal, I just want to keep some processing off the control hubs.

Just emojis. I wanted to keep names short for display on some devices. This way I can see at a glance what the device type is.

Whenever I get around to cleaning up everything I might drop the room from the names. It is as useful now that the support rooms in the app.

No, the gate sensors work well. I was just trying some test groupings to minimize false positives. There are a lot of stray cats in the area. I bought 30 or 50 of the Iris v2 motion sensors when you could get them for under $5. I have plenty to test with and not have to worry about needing them for something.

No, the devices won’t change hubs. The meshes will remain independent. I only use the second mesh to keep the bulbs off of it since they don’t make good repeaters.

The mesh should be stronger with more devices. The repeaters will be there if needed. I have two Z-wave meshes only because I never finished importing the devices off of the original hub. Once I get everything together it will be a better mesh.

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