Ladies and Gentlemen: I live in the US. My house is wired legally, but not every switch box has a neutral.
The Situation: I have a 2x4 troffer fluorescent fixture in a corridor in my basement. It is controlled by a single-pole switch, and the only connections available are the two switch wires and a bare ground.
My Problem: I want a Zigbee or Z-wave switch that will work without a neutral. I know there are plenty of dimmers that will do this job, but I can't seem to find anything in a SWITCH. Amazon's listings are next to useless because you ask for no neutral and most of the listings are for products requiring a neutral.
Further Issues: I'd prefer Zigbee or Z-Wave for my Hubitat (or any other protocol it will handle). A Wi-Fi switch would be good in a pinch, but, at present I have a WEMO, Wyze, Enbrighten, and Sengled accounts, and don't want any more.
Ideas: Short of using a switch, do any of you know of a Zigbee or Z-Wave module I might be able to fit to the fixture itself, and then control it with some sort of a button or momentary toggle from the wall box, in addition of course to some sort of automation?
Yes, Aeotec (and others?) have line level relays that you can put in the fixture and have a switch input that you can wire to your wall switch. Take a look at the Aeotec Nano Switch as an example.
Thank you. As I understand the diagram, the wall switch will now be used to trigger the Sonoff device, OR I can trigger the lights with the wall switch itself.
I'm a bit new on this sort of thing, so please bear with me... If the wall switch is off, but I send a signal through to the Zonoff through my Hubitat, it ignores the wall switch being off, and turns the lights on. But! If the wall switch is ON, can I still shut the lights off via the controller? And, I take it, if the lights are off and the wall switch is on, I can shut it off and turn it back on and the lights will come back on?
The position of the wall switch doesn't really matter for the ZBMINI. If you toggle the wall switch, the relay will change state. Although if your OCD kicks in like mine does sometimes, you can toggle the switch twice really fast and get the relay to only change once. I just can't help myself sometimes when the switch is down and the light is on or vice versa.
Also, for some folks, the fact that the sonoff is not UL listed is a deal breaker. I've been happy with mine, but just wanted to point that out. There is a UL listed version of the Shelly 1 if that would suit you better. Similar device but WiFi. But not cloud WiFi... all local as I understand it. There is a built in hubitat driver I believe.
The "turn light off" capability is the reason I now generally avoid those little devices that wire in behind a regular (manual) switch. I found that they worked well for situations in which turning a light on was all that was needed, but poorly in situations where people could leave a switch on, as I couldn't turn the light off unless the switch was also in the off position. As noted, there are a few switches that don't require a neutral and I think I have one sitting on my workbench that I'll try to find and post about today. But do beware of those little wire-in relays as they limit your capabilities.
The ZBMINI does not have this issue. Physical controls (using the wall toogle) and wireless control coexist perfectly. ON or OFF using either method at any time, regardless of switch position.
Mains powered devices can start a fire if poorly designed or constructed. A listing/certification from a reputable, nationally recognized testing lab like UL, CSA or Intertek can mitigate that risk.
Absolutely they can. I have passed on many non-listed, line voltage devices, especially from no-name Chinese companies.
If my research is correct, European markets only require the CE mark, which is a sign that manufactures have self-certified their devices to a European standard. Seems to work for them, and their regulatory environment seems to be much stronger when it comes to consumer protection. The ZBMINI carries the CE mark. I guess I consider it a calculated (low) risk. But I always mention the lack of US approval because everyone should be able to make that decision for themselves.
Fair enough I guess? But I personally am not reassured by a self-certification process, particularly from a manufacturer based in a country that is not known for a regulatory environment that cares about consumer protections.
The easy but expensive answer is Lutron Caseta of course.. Other than that maybe use a smart dimmer but set the dimming to 100% and emulate a switch via scene control (buttons).
On a side note - I ended up replacing all my fluorescent fixtures in my basement with LEDs - am much happier now that I do not have to deal with flickering, buzzing, WiFi (and Zigbee) interference etc. I do NOT recommend the drop in replacement LED tubes though - I had one burn up on me due to (my) ignorance and a bad ballast.
Just to make sure everyone is aware, many Chinese manufacturers try to create confusion by applying a Chinese Export (CE) mark to their products, that looks almost exactly like the true European CE mark. Thus, I don’t rely on the CE mark for any mains powered devices.
For sure. Some people don’t care for the look of caseta switches and dimmers. I don’t particularly, but I outfitted my old apartment with them because it was one of my only options without neutral wires in most switch boxes. I find the cost of Lutron smart devices to be well worth the rock solid reliability and about as close a guarantee to not starting a fire due to poor design/construction as one can reasonably expect.
So much so that in my new house, I decided to spring for a Lutron RadioRA 2 system. I still don’t know how I convinced my wife the expense (well above and beyond Caseta) was worth it .
@fgrizzly we've gone off the rails on your original question, but you can see why it's sometimes hard to find one "right" answer.
What!? Those sneaky buggers! I did some more digging. Sonoff actually provides access to their certificates. Turns out the ZBMINI is a Chinese product certified to European standards by a US lab...
Not exactly, it’s hard to find a no-neutral zigbee/z-wave switch to control a fluorescent load (that is independently certified to meet North American safety standards). And OP did say he was open to other protocols that Hubitat can work with (enter Lutron).
I believe Leviton had a no-neutral switch in their Lumina RF line that uses zigbee. I’m not sure if it’s still available. It was expensive even when it was, at least $80-100 USD per switch.
Edit: I think it’s the Leviton DL15S-1BZ, though I’m not 100% sure.
I’m generally not a huge fan of wifi home automation devices but Shelly seems to have a good reputation here in the forum. Local control (a must, IMO), it’s obviously mains powered so no concerns re: battery life, and it has a UL listing as you mentioned.
Certainly a less expensive option than starting from scratch with a Caseta pro bridge and switches.
If you go the dimmer route, make sure it's OK to use with fluorescent tube fixtures. Many are not due to the electrical characteristics of the ballast.
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