I have a light fixture with 5 full color Zigbee bulbs in. The lightswitch on the wall is one of those historic push button switches, and I'd like to not replace that. I do have Line and Neutral in the switch box as the house was rewired without replacing the switch.
I'd like to have the hubitat respond to switch events from the ZBMini, ideally without clicking the Mini's relay on and off.
I wired it up and it seems like toggling the switch always toggle's the relay. Is that just a limitation of this device, or is it possible to get switch events without the relay toggling? The device state doesn't show separate "output" and "switch" status, so I assume it's a device limitation.
If the switch and output can't be separated, can anyone recommend a similar zigbee or zwave device that lets hubitat have full control of the relay state and still lets hubitat react to the switch events?
It may be possible to use the following approach (a great insight), from @aaiyar on this issue as well.
In other words, if the event description has the word "physical" in it, then the following approach may work for you as well:
It doesn't need to mirror. Ideally the lights just toggle any time the switch is toggled. I can certainly do this if I bypass the relay (switch connected to S1 and S2 pins on the ZBMini, Line and Neutral shorted through to the fixture). But I already clipped the wires short to fit the relay screw terminals =D
This is what I'm having trouble understanding. If you are using the ZBmini on this circuit and the switch is attached to the ZBmini aren't you getting events? Responding to events means what to you in this circumstance?
The hubitat is getting the events and I can use "Basic Rules" to trigger actions off of those events.
But every time the switch is toggled, the ZBMini also toggles the output state of its own relay (which is no longer desired since I have zigbee bulbs in the fixture now). In fact, it does this even if the hubitat is powered off, so it's definitely something the ZBMini is doing in its own firmware.
I was hoping someone might know a way to de-couple that.
Ok, if you want the circuit hard wired to be on all the time you can do that. Just wire the circuit hot. Don't connect it to the ZBmini. Keep the ZBmini there and don't have anything attached.
The switch input on the zbmini can't be configured and any change in that input flips the relay. I know Shelly relays and the zooz zen17 (and I assume 16) can be configured to detach the relay from the switch input,
I use several Sonoff Zigbee Mini Extreme here. They neither need a neutral, but work with it too. If I change the physical switch the Mini changes its status too, showing it at the dashboard. You will be able to control the switch physically or digitally through automations or dashboards.
Thanks! I've reached out to Zooz for confirmation on one of their relays that fits.
I found a 3rd party (but not open source) firmware (PTVO) that can run on the ZBMini and it sounds like linking the relay to the switch inputs is configurable in that firmware. This requires a programmer, not a simple serial cable.
I also found that the WiFi version of the Sonoff Mini can do this if Tasmota is flashed to it (along with a failover mode when wifi isn't connected, which is clever).
Indeed there's a misunderstanding. I'm not sure why the author labeled the repository as GPL, but there's no source code in that repository, only a *.exe for configuring the firmware images (which means us linux users might have some trouble). Any feature changes can only be done by the developer.
The developer sells a pro-version that has low power modes for battery powered zigbee devices, and has said very clearly that the source code will not be made available:
I just wanted to jump back in there and point out the simple solution again.
For this dumb physical switch and this lighting circuit with smart bulbs the solution is this:
Turn off breaker to this location
Open the switch box
Remove the load wire from the ZBmini
Wire the load wire to hot
Close up the box
flip the breaker on
You now have power to your smart bulbs and a ZBmini sending events on the toggle of the physical switch. You can no automate the smart bulbs with the ZBmini events.
When you need to power cycle the smart bulbs on this circuit you toggle the breaker.
You and I already already shared that solution our comments up above. I had already come up with that solution prior to asking this question. It's practical and I appreciate you sharing, but it's not my preferred solution. It's not the question I asked.
I have a silly reason I don't like that solution: it's noisy. The relay still clicks when operating the switch, even though the relay is no longer controlling anything.
I have another silly reason: I already clipped the wire to 3mm so that it fits in the screw terminals and I'd have to strip it back again. If I then find another relay I'll clip them short again. Repeat this enough and there's no wire in the box anymore! =D
I also have flexibility concerns: Separating the relay output from the switch input adds flexibility like disable the switch during certain times of day. While I don't really need that for this light in the living room, I plan to use a relay for the street lamp in my front yard and for that I'd like to have the light scheduled but allow the switch to override the schedule during certain times of day only.
Perhaps the best example of the flexibility you can get is described here in this feature request on the ptvo firmare that I previously linked to up above (that's a bit more complex, since it's asking for the switch and relay states to be linked only when zigbee isn't connected). Honestly finding a zigbee or zwave relay with the exact behavior described in that issue would be ideal. If I find that (and they're small enough), I'll probably buy a bunch, especially if they also come in 2 output models. With hubitat, we can have smart homes that work even when the internet is broken. But what about when the hubitat breaks?
Also, if "whether the relay output is linked to the switch input" was something configurable via zigbee, it also lets me change it without opening the switch box (such as if I move and sell the house, I could simply change the setting in the relays to make them all behave like regular light switches again) before I move out.
The Zooz zen17 and zen16 are a bit large, but the Zen52 dual relay is actually slightly smaller than the ZBMini single relay and Smart Bulb Mode (parameters 17and 18 control) whether or not the switch inputs are linked to the relay outputs. I think I'll get a couple of those and go from there.
Sonoff support wrote me back and recommended the MiniR4 which has "detached relay mode". But that's a WiFi switch.
Ok, you know that helps a bit. Sounds like you truly want a puck with a quiet relay and the option for a smart bulb type mode. Best of luck. I'm the kind of person that doesn't have a problem swapping switches because I do literally hundreds and hundreds a year. I'd also just whack the relay off the board or cut the traces to silence it.
Regarding cutting wires in a box. The best thing to do is obviously not cut them short. If you do cut them short or you find them too short from a past owner just add a pig tail off the wire and connect that to your switch. I do not want to start a debate on Wago 221 lever nut connectors, but for most people these make wiring a lot easier. They are especially easy for connecting a short wire in a box where you have no more cable to pull into the box.
