Thank you everyone for the replies correcting my misunderstanding. Unfortunately I don't feel any more clear on the diifference. So for clarity:
and
This would mean that backup/restore works better than I had thought. If so, does that mean that Hub Protect offer is hardware warranty extension and offsite backup only?
So what it means is that we don’t have all the information. One can restore a C-4 backup to a C-7, using the built in tools, but zigbee and z-wave devices will have to be paired again. Wifi based integrations will be fine. Another thing is if you restore a C-3 or C-4 hub to a C-7, and you move the z-wave/zigbee stick, the. You don’t need to re-pair, because the stick was moved with all the pairing information.
I don't believe the stick works with a >= C7, it has to be a internal radio.
Ok there are a few confusions here so I'm going to try and clarify.
Before the new service you could back up your database no matter what hub version and you could restore that to any hub version.
When you did this you would rejoin the ZigBee devices and they would slot back in their old holes.
For most z-wave devices you could join them as normal but would then need to carefully follow a guide to swap the network ID around so that you didn't need to change all your rules. Some more complex devices this wouldn't be possible on and you would have to do from scratch then edit the rules.
None of this has been removed and so will work now and in the future.
The new service.
This will work for most >=C5 (some C5s with the stick will still have to do the above).
This enables a cloud back up of your hub which includes the above but also the z-wave details. This means if you want to restore to the same hub version or migrate to a later version. Everything will be moved over, with no manual joining of z-wave devices. You will still need to rejoin ZigBee currently on the <=C7 just as you would do now without the service.
Additionally to the above you also extend your warranty of your hub while the subscription is in place.
The bottom line is the manual backup you do does not back up the radios, it backs up the database (rule, apps, etc). When you restore, you have to re-pair your z-wave and zigbee devices (the zigbee devices will automatically be recognized on pairing, the z-wave will not)
The hub protect restore service automatically does a backup of your data to the cloud for protection (this does not interfere with you backing up locally) but the hub protect version backs up your main database as well as the radio database so when you go to restore to either your existing hubitat (because you had to do a hard reset for something) or a new hubitat, you will not have to re-pair your z-wave devices. You will have to re-pair your zigbee devices but they will be recognized on pairing. The reason you can't restore the zigbee radio like you can the z-wave is a technology limitation. The rest of the subscription is like an extended warranty but Hubitat won't be calling you at 2:am to see if you want to renew...
Strange in Hub Protect pack description, is written that the configuration of new hub with the devices is available only for Z-wave, not for ZigBee. That I understand the ZigBee must be paired even if you buy this pack. So my network is exclusively on ZigBee, then I can consider this pack is not useful for me, just as an insurance for a new hub in case of a defect? Using the money for 3 years of insurance, I can buy my own backup hub 
So I'll be more happy about these news if the fast config will work also for ZigBee, if the technology admit, otherwise that could be solved if the backup hub can be configurated as a full clone of the old one (including communications protocols and id).
Unfortunately they've mentioned there's a technical limitation that prevents them from offering what you're asking for:
So, am I the ONLY one that did not understand the back-ups that I have been religiously generating and storing locally on my NAS would NOT allow me to upload to a replacement hub and have my network fully restored? I am feeling equally stupid and betrayed, especially given the fact I have an unopened back-up C5 sitting on the shelf in the event of total primary hub failure. I, not the HE folks, am the one who devoted hours of time (and sometimes much frustration) into creating the mesh and thus generating the "Z-WAVE radio data" that apparently does not get included in the "back up file"! But this very same data can seemingly be extracted from my hub and saved to a cloud back-up and then sold back to me? For me, having local control of my back-ups (if they were truly a fully functional restorative back-up) is just as important as having local control of my devices. Frustration level nearing 4.9 and HE respect flagging.
For someone who's been around since October 2019, yes, for you to have just discovered that Hubitat local backups have NEVER included radio data is amazing. The C-3 & C-4 use external radios and they can be physically moved to a C-5, using an OTG cable. But the C-7 was a break due to the new 700 series ZWave chip/radio. Those external sticks don't work with the C-7's version of the Platform.
When Hub Protect was announced but before it was delivered, we had an influx of people from platforms that DID include the radios in the backup. That wasn't ST and wasn't Wink, but there are hubs that have provided that data during backup. There was a full discussion of this at that time. Hubitat's use of the Nortek husbzb-1 is a big factor in this. Nortek locked down the DB so it couldn't be extracted and Hubitat was locked into not being able to backup the radio db. In other words, Hubitat's inertia on this carried into the C-5, which could have offered backup of the radio db, but didn't. There was no adjustment til the C-7's introduction.
But still on a c7 your personal backup/download dosnt have z-wave details?
Correct. Local backups have never included radio databases.
I know! As I said, I feel quite stupid (actually ignorant). That being said, HE is not my life nor am I an IT specialist or data/developer expert. I have a very complex life that, like most of us, creates demands on my time in many areas thus limiting time for "deep dives" in others. Shame on me for trusting something referenced as a "backup" would actually fully perform "backup" duties. Thank-you VERY much for providing the background and insight.
I read this board almost every morning, and I honestly don't know what backs up, where. Here's something that would be helpful, please:
A single thread/sticky from the nice folks at Hubitat that explains what we need to do to back up our hubs so that, if a hub locks up or bites the dust, we can:
Without going into a lot of caveats and nuances, I think most people would like to get as close as possible to "push button, new hub works just like old hub", which means all devices and drivers and rules and such are also restored. If that is not possible, a really simple explanation of what doesn't get restored would be helpful. If we can do this locally, please tell us. If we can't backup locally and need one of the new cloud services, please tell us. If there are differences in what can be done with each of these, please tell us exactly what can be done one way, vs. the other. Heck, a little table that compared local vs. cloud service backups would be amazing.
Now, if this has all been done somewhere, that's great. I don't personally know where that might be, or have a grasp on all this, and it sounds like others are in the same situation. So, there ya go. Do it, don't do it, my life won't change much either way. But just an observation that maybe such a post would help clear things up, and might even get some of us to back up our hubs using a service that benefits us, and Hubitat.
End transmission.
It’s certainly frustrating, and I too feel. Like the words “unlimited” “lifetime” “simple”, “backup-restore” no longer means what they used to mean. I can go anywhere in the world and buy a new phone, tablet, computer, watch and every other personalized device and have it 100% restored pretty much before I leave the store. In the 80’s my X-10 HA configuration was locally backed up and restorable. Through many other HA platforms everything was restorable onto new hardware. I believe the initial push of Hubitat was toward the geekie “I wanna futz with something as a hobby” crowd ( which is perfectly fine - everyone needs and has hobbies ). I came to Hubitat from Micasavera as my Vera was a few years old and I saw Hubitat was “coming soon” on some web site. It looked like an “upgrade” to Vera, I had been through a few Vera upgrades and since I was waiting on the new Vera anyway, I figured what the heck. Hubitat is pretty good, but it’s only good because of the talents of the people who produce FREE apps. ( like Brian and many others ) who are hobbyists and get hobby satisfaction from their work. Without them Hubitat really is pretty Meh in the scheme of things, especially to people who don’t want HA to be their “daily hobby”. Me personally I have a ton of other things in my life that make HA down in the lowest priority of things I would work on if I’m bored. HA to me has always been about having things occur that I don’t need to interact with - saving me from daily items that need to occur repetitively ( climate, sprinklers, lights on / off, and other simple tasks ) I don’t want to “monitor” my house from afar as I don’t care about it when I’m not there - it’s a house, if it burns to the ground or blows away, I get a new one - I don’t care. But while I’m in it, I want the lights to go on when I walk into a dark room, and music when I’m in the garage or workshop.
That said, you are right in feeling that “backup” indicates “whole backup” and “restore” means “like it was” as a seemless operation. Right now - today - I’m OK with Hubitat, when it fails since I need to effectively recreate the system, it will probably be on whatever is the newest hardware out there regardless of who makes it. Now I’m going to go ride my dirt bike, go hiking or fishing and come home to the lights on and the house the perfect temperature - I hope.
Holy 'hit enter once in a while', Batman!
This is only "recently" the case, it wasn't to long ago when you bought a new cell phone you had to MANUALLY re-enter all your contacts into the new one, and re-download all your previous apps.
You like myself and dozens others here from Vera NEVER experienced this scenario on the Vera platform, which is the reason we are here and not there.
Ive had a cell phone since 1984, I’ve never re-entered all my contacts. had a Motorola flip phone in the 90s that all my contacts / data transferred from phone to new phone with the Sim. When I got an iPhone 3g at release, it imported all the data too. It’s gotten more automated and without moving a physical sim, but even then you could backup your contacts to a local computer, lose your phone and restore it to any brand of phone with a few clicks, missing only a minor amount of data since the last backup. So if you mean “recently” since the beginning of time then yes, if you mean “recently” as to technology then that’s a no. I’ve still got a backup of a Palm Pilot somewhere from 1998 that could be restored fully to a Palm and probably all the actual important data could be imported into any CSV file and be used.
As far as redownloading the Apps - again, that’s a seemless process and the actual data would be as it was. You don’t have to re-do anything is my point.
To be mainstream items need to work like a refrigerator or a faucet. In the days of VCRs 9 out of 10 were blinking 12:00 because people couldn’t be bothered to learn how to set the clock. You can’t convince or expect people to want “items of convenience” that need to have time spent on them to save time. Life’s too short for that. I’ve spent more time on HA than it’s ever going to really benefit me, but it’s a cheap novelty.
Since when is ANY home automation hub an "item of convience" What hub manufacture does a plug and play that you just go to any store buy the hub and presto your house is now automated?
I don’t believe you’re thinking beyond the niche factor. Everything that replaces thought or effort and does a task is an item of convenience. You’re not washing clothes in the creek, you have a washer. HA is a niche product exactly because it involves time and effort to be. I know many whom would love an automated home, but since their lives have other more enjoyable ( to them ) factors it’s not practical. I would say a ton of people purchase HA products and after the initial futzing to make things work, abandon it soon there after.
I’m not even sure what people are arguing/talking about at this point... or why for that matter. The hub is backing up what it has always backed up.
The issue with the free backup is, as many of you have already pointed out, that it doesn’t include a backup of the Zigbee and Zwave devices. In the early days of HE, this was not as big of a problem as it is now because the wireless radio was a USB connected dongle. If the hub died you would just take your backup and restore it to another HE hub and move the dongle from the dead hub to the new. Restore complete with no devices that required to be re-paired again.
The lack of backups of the wireless devices DB (which is located on the radio chip) began to be an issue with the C5 where the radios were built in (though international versions of the hub still came with a Zwave dongle as the built in Zwave radio only did US frequencies).
I only have very basic understanding of the challenges with providing a backup that will include all connected devices and not require them to be re-paired again, but I can understand why it might be difficult to achieve. Now, I haven’t done this for some time, but if you restore a phone backup to a new phone, does that actually include devices paired with your old phone (that is Bluetooth connected devices) or do you have to re-pair them after a restore? If you can or not will depend on the wireless protocol (Bluetooth, Zigbee or Zwave) and whether or not you can take a backup of the devices and move it to a new piece of hardware without having to re-pair the devices. After all, the devices have been paired with a piece of hardware with a certain signature and they trust that hardware. Moving them to another piece of hardware with a different signature should make the device refuse to connect to it as it is not the piece of hardware that the device has been paired with. So I guess it comes down to the security of the protocols to see if a restore to new hardware can somehow be achieved. As I said before, I don’t know if this can be done with Bluetooth devices, but Hubitat have figured out a way how to do this with Zwave but not with Zigbee. I don’t know if they are still working on getting Zigbee to work as well or not, but hopefully they are.
The community has for a long time been pleading to Hubitat to offer extended optional functionality on a subscription basis as the community couldn’t see how a business model just based on hardware sales was sustainable. The service to back up the Zwave radios (and have the deal sweetened with extended warranty) is entirely optional and is not required to make your hub function properly. It also provides Hubitat a new income stream from the people that decide that they want this feature.
IMHO, Hubitat made the right choice to make it a subscription service. I can now decide myself if the subscription cost is worth the extra services it provides. I do though agree that the limitation of the free backups is poorly advertised. A sticky post on the forum and/or a mention of this on the backup page on the hub would be great. I didn’t realise myself that radios were not included in the backup until after a year on the forum. Having said that, that was about the time when the C5 was introduced so that’s when the lack of radio backups really started to be an issue.
I don’t know if this post will make anyone more informed or more confused or if it will relieve any frustration. It’s my 2 cents to the conversation.
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