Sudden Z-Wave instability after device crashed

Still was having issues. I decided to try excluding the Multisensor 6 from Hubitat. I seems to have made improvement.

Disconnected Battery vs Excluded on a non-repeating sensor should logically not make any difference

Apparently it IS a routing device and I had it plugged in via USB for awhile....

Ah yes, I always forgot about that with some of these sensors. IF you included it while on USB power a lot of them will join as a repeater. If you then switch to battery it will stay as a repeater but work VERY badly because it will be going to sleep all the time.

So if this improves the situation you could try pairing it again while on battery power to ensure it joins as a non-repeater. The general recommendation is to do this even if you want to power it with USB, just because they are often not good repeaters anyway.

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This problem is getting worse by the day. Every day, it seems like more Z-wave devices are acting funny, the Hub is starting to miss triggers and automations more often. If I hit a light switch, sometimes the light won't turn on for several seconds or even several minutes after I hit the switch. When the light does turn on or off, sometimes I get a blast of entries in the log that look like this:

There seems to be nothing wrong with any of my ethernet connected devices or apps in Hubitat, but I will start disabling some of my networked integrations to see if stability improves. But so far using the USB Zwave stick and PC-Controller hasn't shown me any reasons why my Zwave network is so messed up.

Just chiming in here, but have you tried a controlled shutdown, remove power for a minute or so, and restore power?

Major zwave routing problems. You probably have a device going haywire and spamming out messages but without the extra details the C7+ provides its hard to find which one. Possibly turning on debug logging for every device would help find it. Easiest way is with a zniffer setup. If you have any extra USB sticks you could convert one of them over.

Yes try that if you have not, I was thinking that had been tried but I don't see it in any of the posts so must be thinking of another thread.

Here's what I've done so far:

  • verify no ghosts nodes are present using PC Controller.
  • Tried repairing nodes individually with PC Controller to correct broken routes
  • Excluded Aeotec Multisensor 6 which may have been too chatty but honestly not even sure it, it seemed to be working just fine.
  • Excluded and re-included some of the Z-wave devices that were not functioning properly.
  • Performed a backup and then restore
  • shut down hub, disconnected power for an hour or so.

probably not related to the issues, but when I originally paired my Zwave stick to Hubitat, it was falsely detected as a Zigbee sensor device and I was getting all sorts of weird error messages pertaining to that device in the logs. I couldn't find a "null" device, so I changed the device type to "device" and that seems to have stopped the errors in the log.

I had an episode a while ago now, on my thread "woke up to slow world", or something like that.
As I recall, and I could be wrong, the cause was a Hubitat driver error.
So, maybe the driver you're using could be at fault?
What app are you using for those motion rules? Could that be involved, somehow?

I think I looked pretty carefully but I saw no specific driver for a secondary controller, and I had read on another thread that it shouldn't need a driver at all and sometimes installs without one but that info seems to pertain only to C-7 and later as my Z-wave info page looks much different than the one pictured in that post.

As far as control and automation is concerned, I use Rule Machine for basically everything.

I only have one Z-Wave USB stick, but you said it could be "converted" to a Zniffer device? Could it be converted back later if I need to use it with PC Controller again?

This is what Hubitat currently shows me on my Z-wave page. Lots of devices seem to have no out routes. Not sure why, many of them are mains powered switches and things. Anybody have any ideas?


Notes:
Living Room Remote and Office Remote are both Zooz Zen34 battery powered remote switches (Nodes 32 and 16)

Office Motion Sensor and Laundry Room Motion Sensor are both Zooz ZSE14 motion sensors (nodes 18 and 38). I believe they are both powered via USB but don't believe they are routing devices.

Carport Sensor (node 29) is an Aeotec Trisensor. It is battery powered and not a routing device.

Kitchen Door (node 35) is a Yale Assure2 Z-Wave lock.

All the rest are mains powered switches, dimmers, or scene controllers.

I have a story... maybe it helps...

I have a few devices outside in my yard.. the most distant is an outdoor rated switch by my pool equipment. There are 2-3 devices just outside the wall of my home, a Bulb over my BBQ and a Switch module inside a junction box to control rope lights. Routing shows they are in a line, in other words the distant switch by the pool equipment routes through the other two.

Additionally all 3 are on a single GFCI circuit for the entire set of outdoor outlets. That GCFI outlet is also out by the pool equipment because that's where the subpanel is. During most rains, that GCFI circuit pops. Don't know why, I've tried hunting it down, but nothing DYI'ish exposes a problem. Simply opening the junction boxes and inspecting them for miswires, open grounds, etc. yielded anything. But that fail isn't the big part of this story. :slight_smile:

Here in Southern California, we don't get many rain storms that pop the GCFi and thus it's a nuisance, but not critical. It's just "garden lights" that don't come on that remind me. Dozens of these outages have occurred over the years and the hub that manages those devices began as a C-4, got upgraded to a C-5 and is now a C-8. I never had any problem other than what I've mentioned.. garden lights off the evening after a good rain.

But one day, I did the most rare of all my Hub related tasks... I power cycled the hub to re-route the little power cable. Really, I never power cycle my hubs, there's just almost never a need around here. Initially everything was OK. A day or two later, things were really bad. I have 4 hubs making up my Home Automation system and only things on one of the hubs was bad, really bad. Because it was so bad, those garden lights failing allowed me to ignore them because they were the least of my problems. :smiley: You know where this story is going already?

I really got into chasing this down and power cycled the hub again. All bad still, but not right away.. in fact there was enough of a "working period" that only those garden lights were on the list of: not working. Things started to degrade and since I had no other ideas at the moment, I decided to reset the GCFI and get those garden lights going.

15 mins later, everything was perfect. Those missing devices simply KILLED my mesh.. They had dropped off MANY times over the years but power cycling the hub, and thus powering down the Z-Wave Radio, brought the failure to the forefront. Understand that I had done platform upgrades, thus rebooting the hub many times when the GCFI was popped, but only once had it been popped AND the ZWave radio got powered off too.

This story has no direct correlation to the issue in this Topic except "weird s**t can happen".

Device is the correct driver to use for something like this.

Should be able to in theory, not sure how easy it would be or how to do it. The guide I followed said it was not possible but I assume that just means they didnt want to figure out how.

Normal for Zwave, I think I only have one device with out clusters.

I don't have too many Z-Wave devices so it was pretty easy to go around my house just now and verify that there's nothing without power.

You know, one thing I hadn't considered was the weather... I'm in Arizona and it's HOT here right now... We hit 119 a couple times the past week according to my carport sensor, and most of the devices that are failing to function properly are either outdoors, or very close by outdoor devices. The time of the problems beginning roughly correlates to the time the temp started getting over 105ish....

Today, for whatever reason, things seem to be much better.... :crossed_fingers:

I had a couple of days with zero issues, and then today started having some serious problems again.

Started digging again. I noticed something suspicious:
PC Controller software seems to indicate that my Z-Wave nodes each show that they have 26 neighbor devices with routing capabilities, yet Hubitat and my ZWave stick both only show 21 nodes on the network, which is the proper number. Could it be that there are 5 "old routes" stuck in all my device's maps that do not correspond to any real device? If so, how can I fix this?? (see images below)


PC Controller is bad about updating it's display/usb stick to match the primary. Secondary Controllers don't get updated as devices come and go. In PC Controller there's an Update button... occasionally it works and successfully acquires a new copy. Too much of the time it doesn't. For me I have a simple test.. if I click update and it returns "done" in a second the update did not occur. To recover, one must Exclude the USB Stick and then Include it again. The Include does get a fresh copy.

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Z-Wave stick was just re-included today for troubleshooting. The device list is up to date with 21 nodes. The thing I'm worried about is that when I do a test on each node, each node returns that it has either 23 or 26 neighbors, when there are only 21 nodes total....

I am unable to figure out how to remove the extra nodes from the neighbor list of all of my devices.

Are you sure it is not counting the extra hub nodes that PC controller displays in the neighbor count? Typically these are nodes 2-5. They are created by the hub but hidden in the UI, I forget what they are for exactly.

That seems to be a C7+ thing. On the C5, there are no "virtual nodes" taking up nodes 2-5. I think it must have something to do with S2 being enabled on the C7 and not the C5. On the C5, node 1 is the controller, nodes 2 and on are just regular Z-Wave devices. For example, Node 3 and Node 4 on mine are just regular switch devices:

This was the first thing I noticed that differed between my Hubitat and the Z-Wave ghost removal tutorial on here.