Hi all, I'm interested in learning more about different options for switches / dimmers that people use that connect directly to HE and control smart bulbs.
I am NOT looking for smart switches connected to mains that control dumb bulbs.
I've been using Philips Hue dimmers, but they only connect to Hue Bridge and are not visible in HE, so can only control lighting that is linked via the Hue Bridge.
I'm only interested in options available in the UK.
TIA!
You can un-pair the Hue Dimmers from the Hue Bridge, and then pair them to the Hubitat hub instead. You can then use them to control any lights that Hubitat has control of.
Oh, that's great, had no idea!
@ogiewon -- so perhaps a related question -- what would be the pros/cons of connecting my Hue bulbs & switches to the Hue Bridge and then to HE vs. connecting them directly to HE (apart from the perhaps more user-friendly Hue Bridge app functionality)? My understanding is that if connected to HE directly the bulbs would also act as repeaters, but if connected to the Hue Bridge, they don't work as repeaters for any HE-connected devices...? Are there any other considerations?
Good questions!
First, as you know, the Hue Dimmers and Motion Sensors that are directly paired to the Hue bridge are not visible to Hubitat for use in Hubitat Automations. However, this does mean that these devices will continue to work to control your Hue lights regardless of whether or not your Hubitat hub is up and running.
Moving Hue Dimmers and Motion sensors only to Hubitat, allows those devices to be integrated with any Hubitat automations that you'd like. They are just like any other Zigbee device paired to your Hubitat hub. In this configuration, the Hubitat Hub, the Hue Birdge, and the LAN connection between them is required for everything to work.
As for the bulbs, it is strongly advised to NOT directly pair Hue bulbs to the Hubitat hub. Yes, they will 'try' to act as Zigbee HA1.2 repeaters for the rest of your Hubitat ZHA devices... However, they are known to perform that task poorly. This is true for most Zigbee bulbs when directly-paired to the Hubitat hub, except for Sengled Zigbee bulbs (as they are designed to NOT be Zigbee repeaters.)
Thus, most users who want to use Hubitat's Zigbee mesh network capabilities will need to build a strong Zigbee mesh using mains-powered device that can act as Zigbee repeaters. The IKEA Tradfri outlets and dedicated repeaters are inexpensive and have been reported by users world-wide to do a good job strengthening the Zigbee mesh network.
My personal setup is:
This setup works extremely well for my requirements, and has been incredibly reliable. I have moved completely away from Z-wave due to problems I had with it on both SmartThings and Hubitat from 2014 until 2019. A quick search of this community will show that some users still experience significant issues with Z-Wave, much more so than with Zigbee, IMHO.
Things I really like about my lighting being on Lutron + Philips:
It is really nice to have options!
@ogiewon -- this is great, lots of very helpful info! So sounds like I should most definitelly keep my bulbs connected to the Hue Bridge and the question around dimmers perhaps still remains. Sounds like you keep your dimmers / switches connected to a third, Lutron bridge, not HE.
I am still learning about mesh and the different considerations to take into account. Perhaps I'm thinking about this too simplisticly, but in my head there are two types of devices:
And to have a good and stable mesh network you need a decent drainers / enhancers ratio. I'm sure it's not a simple maths and very dependent on where these devices are and how the overall network looks like, but more or less.
So I am not sure it would be good for my Hubitat mesh to add a bunch of dimmers & switches that are all battery-powered, unless I can match it with a good number of additional mains-powered devices.
Very good point about the native integrations with Alexa (which I use as well). I currently have Hue lights connected to Hubitat via Hue Bridge, and then I use Alexa to control the lights by connecting to HE. But that seems silly as I am unnecessarily adding steps. So perhaps connect Alexa to Hue Bridge directly, which is what you are suggesting to do.
I have zero experience with z-wave -- tried to understand pros/cons by doing some research but still don't fully understand what it means in practical terms. I've also noticed that z-wave seems to be far more popular in the US than in Europe, where zigbee seems to be more common.
Yep, you've got it. The two types of devices are mains-powered Repeaters and battery-powered End devices.
Correct again. I have a ~2700 square foot, two story home, with typical USA wood framing and drywall construction. I have ~7 Zigbee outlets plugged in throughout the house to create a strong Zigbee mesh. I have probably ~36 end devices (motion sensors, contact sensors, leak sensors, etc...) Each repeater can handle a certain number of end devices reliably. But that number varies from device model to device model. A simple rule of thumb is to have 1 repeater for roughly every 8 Zigbee end devices. Also, make sure your Hubitat hub is on a different Zigbee channel versus your Philips Hue bridge. AND... make sure to choose channels for Zigbee and WiFi properly, to avoid interference issues. A simple best practice is to only use Zigbee Channels 15, 20, and 25, while only using 2.5GHz WiFi channels 1, 6, and 11. I have my WiFi access points on 1, 6, and 11 while my Hubitat hub is on Zigbee 20 and my Hue bridge is on 25.
Actually, I access my Hue bulbs on Alexa using the Hubitat Skill. I do this as it makes sure to keep Hubitat updated as quickly as possible on the status of the Hue bridge bulbs. If you update a Hue bridge bulb outside of Hubitat (e.g. using the Hue app on your phone), it will generally take up to a minute before Hubitat polls the Hue bridge to see if anything has changed. The polling frequency can be adjusted in the Hubitat Hue Integration app.
So, if you were to have something in Hubitat that reacts quickly when a Hue bulb's status has changed via voice control, it might be best to use the Alexa - Hubitat - Hue path as you are currently doing. Also, if you have multiple Hue bridges, it might be easier to use Hubitat as the 'middle-man' to keep things simple.
I do use the Lutron Caseta - Alexa skill for those devices, as Hubitat is updated immediately regardless of how those lights are adjusted.
Yes, the problem that Z-Wave has struggled with (compared to Zigbee) is that the Radio Frequency for Z-Wave is country specific. So US devices will not work in the UK, for example. Much simpler for device manufacturers to manufacture one Zigbee device that works around the world.
These are some really helpful rules of thumb. The size of my townhouse in London is probably more like 1500 sqft, across three storeys -- so far I have 4 Zigbee outlets and will be connecting 4 more dedicated repeaters (all IKEA). This is all in preparation for window & door sensors, motion sensors, and buttons I will be deploying thoughout the house. However, I don't think I will end up with more than 36 end devices, 20 maybe. So it looks like my ratio of end : repeater devices will be 3:1 at most. Assuming they will be optimally placed around the house, it feels like this should give me a decent Zigbee mesh.
Yep, someone has has already educated me on the channel interference issues both with other Zigbee bridges and my WiFi. Given I live in a fairly densly populated area, sharing two of my walls on each side with neighbours, there are a few more WiFi networks interfering with my freqencies. However, I think I have it all sorted at least for now -- my WiFi on 6, HE on 15, Hue Bridge on 25, and my neighbours' WiFi mostly clustered on 11.
And again, I learned something new. 
In that case, I will leave it as it is for now.
And again, a useful lesson. GIven the size of the US market vs. UK market, it makes sense that manufactures are probably more inclined to grow their z-wave product lines in North America rather than over here. Although, given EU likes to standartise everything perhaps z-wave radio frequencies are the same across all of the EU (well, UK is no longer part of the EU, but I suspect changing radio frequences wouldn't be the government's priority in the first 3 weeks of being outside the EU...).
In general, thanks a lot for taking the time to explain all of this to me and provide helpful advice. I have to say ever since I started my adventure with Hubitat a couple of weeks ago any frustrations caused by me not being able to make things work have been very quickly outweighted by the absolutely amazing Hubitat community that I've found on this forum and great contributors like yourself.
Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't just go adding so many repeaters like that without testing first.
Your ratio of 3:1 sounds a bit overkill, and you can probably use that money with more useful things.
Don't think of those end devices as "mesh drains", because usually they are very quiet and only "drain" your mesh when they are passing a message, which for all the sensors you mentioned shouldn't be that often.
And remember, especially for zigbee, you can always add repeaters later.
@MrPancake - normally I would agree with you but IKEA plugs are like £10 each and repeaters are £8 I think - all of those together are just a bit more than one smart dimmer from Aurora that I got.
I am fully anticipating having issues with my various sensors based on the very limited experience I’ve had so far - installing one of each sensors only just to see how it all works and to get myself more comfortable.
So by overdoing it on the repeaters I am hoping I won’t have to think too much about mesh issues when trying to troubleshoot over the next few weeks...
I guess it makes sense financially.
But don't be so pessimistic about the sensors, if you got them from a good brand it shouldn't give you any trouble.
I personally rarely have issues with zigbee sensors
@MrPancake - yes, you are right that I should perhaps just invest in better sensors. I bought a bit of Xiaomi kit and then people educated me on how they don’t really speak the same standard Zigbee language. Now I’m waiting for a few Sonoff devices. Yes, both are cheap, so if Sonoff also keeps giving me headaches I will definitely look at more respectable brands. (Just don’t tell my wife how much ‘junk’, using her language, I am buying).
What contact sensors do you use By the way?
I don't use many contact sensors, mostly just motion for me, but I have some SmartThings multipurpose sensors that work fine, and one Sensative Strip (which is z-wave), that is incredible because you can hide it between the door and the frame and have nothing showing.
And just so you know, many things you would imagine you would need a contact sensor you can be creative and use a motion sensor instead.
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